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  #1  
Old 08-24-2004, 02:13 PM
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Only problem is in the economics. Kind of like making ethanol for gasoline addition or blending, where it takes more petroleum based fuel to operate the farm than the ethanol you get back. BioD seems to be priced substantially higher than DinoD everywhere I have seen it advertised. Does seem to be a cleaner alternative though, and if the coking issues are not too substantial could be successful in the long term. The economics need to be right though!
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Old 08-24-2004, 02:23 PM
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Mfg's are making a killing on the B100. Soy oil is made when making the bean paste for use in food stuff's and they make a lot of cooking oil from that, even after selling oil to fuel makers. They have so much left over from the process even after sell it for cooking and other types of oil that most is dump. They can do that because it is a non bio hazard.

One of the problems that still give the B100 makes fits is lower the jell point. The crap starts getting thick below about 75* F and turns solid at 32* F and as yet no additive to prevent other then heavy mixing with dino fuel.
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Old 08-24-2004, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnavy
One of the problems that still give the B100 makes fits is lower the jell point. The crap starts getting thick below about 75* F and turns solid at 32* F and as yet no additive to prevent other then heavy mixing with dino fuel.
I don't know what crappy b100 you've been using, but mine started cold without any issues down to 20 this winter. World Energy b100. Thick at 75 cannot possibly meet the astm standard.

There is an anti-gelling agent that's been designed for biodiesel specifically. If memory serves, it's called.... Power Service Arctic Express Biodiesel Anti-Gel. Hard to find, but supposed to work great!

the cars listed below LOVE b100.
k
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Old 08-24-2004, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djugurba
I don't know what crappy b100 you've been using, but mine started cold without any issues down to 20 this winter. World Energy b100. Thick at 75 cannot possibly meet the astm standard.

There is an anti-gelling agent that's been designed for biodiesel specifically. If memory serves, it's called.... Power Service Arctic Express Biodiesel Anti-Gel. Hard to find, but supposed to work great!

the cars listed below LOVE b100.
k
Last I heard this past winter the people up north running the B100 and PS Biodiesel Anti-gel were still having to mix it with dino stuff to keep it from gelling and that included some who were using World Enegry Bio fuel.

Last I heard it doesn't get -10 to -40 below in GA, coldest it got here last winter was about 0 F for a few days. We do sometimes have colder winters, as does GA, but if I remember my days in Columbia SC correct the winters there are seldom in the single digits. I lived in SC from '75 to '81 and never saw a day of single digit weather, did see a 13" snow in Jan 79 and I think a 8 or 10 incher in Feb or Mar of '79 or '80

I will admit not keeping up with B100 news as I should, the reason is I'm surrounded by soybean fields and the stuff is still about $3.00 a gal. There is prospect of lower prices in the future if the B100 CO-OP plant gets the funding here locally.

Also B100 does start getting thicker at about 75* F, but not enough for problems with astm standards. For that matter you or I an our old MB's would never notice the difference. However a new VW PD TDI (Pump Injector, Turbo Direct Injection diesel) with normal IP pressure of 27,000 to 29,000 PSI are effected by just slight decreases in flow capabilities and may have problems with these slight increases in "thickness" of the fuel.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2004, 02:26 PM
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check out this page for hard facts: http://www.biodiesel.org/

Biodiesel could (and is) be quite easily mass-produced. Large volume would reduce prices, so long as a supply of raw materials did not become constrained.

Biodiesel doesn't do anything to help NOx, unfortunately. NOx is formed through high temperatures and pressures, which cause the Nitrogen and Oxygen in the air to combine. Since biodiesel runs the same temps and pressures, it's gonna produce roughly the same NOx. The other emissions are much better, however:

Emissions:

Emission Type B100 B20 (100% vs 20% biodiesel)
Regulated
Total Unburned Hydrocarbons -67% -20%
Carbon Monoxide -48% -12%
Particulate Matter -47% -12%
Nox +10% +2%

Non-Regulated
Sulfates -100% -20%*
PAH -80% -13%
nPAH (nitrated PAH’s)** -90% -50%***
Ozone potential of speciated HC -50% -10%
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Old 08-24-2004, 02:32 PM
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What about cholesterol and saturated fat
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Old 08-24-2004, 05:03 PM
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Yes

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What about cholesterol and saturated fat
I don't want Baby Blue to have a stroke or start putting on weight. LOL
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycoming-8
Only problem is in the economics. Kind of like making ethanol for gasoline addition or blending, where it takes more petroleum based fuel to operate the farm than the ethanol you get back. BioD seems to be priced substantially higher than DinoD everywhere I have seen it advertised. Does seem to be a cleaner alternative though, and if the coking issues are not too substantial could be successful in the long term. The economics need to be right though!
It is a cleaner alternative, and it's a better fuel. The coking issues you mention are not associated with biodiesel, they are associated with burning vegetable oil that is not hot enough.
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Old 08-24-2004, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old300D
It is a cleaner alternative, and it's a better fuel. The coking issues you mention are not associated with biodiesel, they are associated with burning vegetable oil that is not hot enough.
Does it run more efficient? I saw a station in San Diego selling it, at $2.39, thought that was ridiculous expensive at the time.
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Old 08-24-2004, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorn
Does it run more efficient? I saw a station in San Diego selling it, at $2.39, thought that was ridiculous expensive at the time.

It actually has a slightly lower heat content than diesel, so you get a little less out of a gallon (I believe).

That station in San Diego sells B20, which is only 20% biodiesel. Bummer...
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2004, 08:49 PM
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You will see many more diesel powered cars, but it will be ten or so years. Wait til gas is $6.00 a gallon, lots of things (including not using them) become viable alternatives suddenly.

T. Boone Pickens (I think, may be someone else!) has publicly stated that he expects world oil production to peak about Thanksgiving Day 2005 and drop of pretty fast after that.

BioDiesel works just fine, with the exception of a fairly high pour point. This can be corrected with some work, right now it's usually just plain vegetable oil derived methyl esters, nothing else. Same process works just fine with animal fat, too, so expect the market for waste edible oil to take off when diesel hits about $2.50 a gallon (early next year?).

Biofuels are the future if we want to drive cars and ship by truck, otherwise I'd suggest moving to where you can walk to work -- personal automobiles may last 15 more years, but it's not gonna be much more than that.

Peter
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2004, 11:02 PM
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Biodiesel

Hey all

If you are interested in B100 or B20 ( 100% biodiesel or 20% biodiesel) go to journeytoforever.org. This site has more info then you could read in a week. BioD burns cleaner cooler and quieter. It is easy to make at home for less then a $1 per gallon

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  #13  
Old 08-26-2004, 12:43 AM
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Car and Driver actually did mention bio diesel in an article about eight months ago or so about the availability of diesels. They looked at an MB, a Jetta TDI and something else. They also mentioned old MB 300D's and kind of took a crack at them, and only brought up bio-diesel to make fun of it.

C&D is an alright car magazine for what it is, but they tend to limit their automotive enthusiasm to pretty much one kind, contemporary and cool, and an occasional Hyundai/Kia or Camry test. Bio-diesel isn't going to register on their radar I don't think.
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2004, 08:45 AM
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Most of the media blurbs I read, hear or see make automotive technologies seem mutually exclusive. I attribute this to the business factions pushing the different technologies. For instance have you heard anything about a diesel powered hybrid? The media seems to want us to believe you can either have hybrids or diesels but not a diesel hybrid. "Our way is the only way", not.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2004, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorn
Does it run more efficient? I saw a station in San Diego selling it, at $2.39, thought that was ridiculous expensive at the time.
What you see for sale is probably 80% dino/20% biodiesel (B20). Definitely worth running as it provides good IJP lubrication, and you should not notice any difference in mileage. Pure biodiesel has about 90% of the energy content of dino, and you might see a slight drop in mileage running B100.

B100 is over $3.00/gallon here in Denver. If you can make it yourself, your fuel costs drop to less than $0.50 per gallon.
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