Starter Removal Full-Fledged Freak Out

[Appollon]

1982 240d

I'm now on day two of trying to pull my starter...with a twist!

The twist is that I had been fiddling with the vaccum, and accidentally disco'd a line that made the windows work. I turned the engine off, and reconnected it. Went to turn it back on, and the started was kaput.

So, It is the hottest three day window of the year so far, and my car is stuck in a parking lot outside of my work...with the windows down!!!

!!

I pulled the battery, tray, and air filter yesterday and then tried to get the 10mm Allen bolts out. Simply could not do it. They would not budge. I was at work with no tools, so I spent the majority of the day arranging a ride to go get my tools, and then getting a ride to the autozone to get the new starter.

But, I don't have a breaker bar in my tool collection, so I ended up being stranded for the second timein one day last night at around 9pm.

I borrowed my neighbor's breaker bar and got both of the 10mm allens right off this morning. Yeah!

And, then I tried to move it forward and realized that there is a bracket stopping me. I got the top 10mm bolt out with ease. The bottom one seems utterly impossible to move?! There is about 4 inches of room, maximum, and there's only about 15 degrees to move it in. But, Ijust can't see how this is even possible to get out, as there is no way I'm going to get any leverage using a tiny wrench.

I would love to use a socket, but even my little tiny 3/8 socket doesn't fit in there (at the head).

I though, well, maybe I can just pull the whole bracket off. I started with the bottom 17mm bolt from underneath. Stuck as hell. But, I could get the breaker bar to it, and got it right off. The top one, however, is a whole different story. I just can't seem to get at it at all! I tried a universal joint on the breaker bar, but I just can't get it in there and doing much of anything.

It is forecasted to rain this afternoon, and my windows are down, and I have a pretty darn nice interior on the old girl, and I am officially freaking out.

[leathermang]

I do not blame you for freaking out...
I guess you can not count your blessings as to getting rain.... we are in a severe drought and would appreciate some..
This is one of those examples of crank windows coming in handy... as I have...
It is hard to get those nuts loose.... All I can suggest is bigger equipment.... and proper distance.... as I believe that I had to position my ratchet so that the handle was sticking up between the runners of the intake manifold.. or something like that directly in line with those bolts.... or maybe you could call someone with tools to come help ?
On the top starter bolt facing rear... I had to use two long extensions with a 6 inch extension and a universal joint ... and it needs to be a half inch set up because smaller ones just flex instead of moving the bolt...

[funola]

The starter bracket has two 10 mm bolts that secures it to the block. You remove them easily with a socket/ratchet/extension. The bracket stays on the starter motor. A 240D is easy compared to a 300D turbo starter.

[Junkman]

1. Stop freaking out and post some useful information so we can help diagnose.

2. Windows are electric & not vacuum. Coincidental window and starter failure would be very unlikely unless the problem is something like a dead battery or unless you grounded & burnt a wire..

Let's start by making sure the battery is fully charged & installed correctly. This means have the battery charged to 12.6 volts, load tested and recharged if necessary so it is at 12.6V.

Next make sure your battery posts and cable connections are clean and tight. Make sure the connection at the from battery cable to ground is clean and tight. Make sure that the + battery cable is clean and tight at the battery and solenoid.

Now turn the key to run. Do the windows roll up? Turn key to start. Does engine crank at normal speed?

You need a volt meter. "Thinking" that battery is charged or that turn signals work is not useful information. You could always buy a tarp and tie it down to keep the rain out.

[Zacharias]

Originally Posted by Appollon

1982 240d
I had been fiddling with the vaccum, and accidentally disco'd a line that made the windows work.

Ok, whoa here.

What EXACTLY were you doing when this all happened, in other words what did you set out to fix/adjust/whatever, and what had you touched on the car?

Tell us step by step. Right now you are throwing results at us, without any info on how you got there.

For example, vacuum has nothing to do with your windows. Your windows are on two fuses that control diagonal circuits (for example, driver front and passenger rear).

[funola]

Oh yeah forgot about your windows. Connect the power leads at the starter and battery and go shut your windows.

[Renntag]

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Ok, whoa here.

What EXACTLY were you doing when this all happened,

(for the next guy reading this thread)
Why try to replace a starter if you dont know you need one?

Originally Posted by Zacharias

in other words what ... had you touched on the car?

Last thing you touched is usually where the problem is.

Originally Posted by Zacharias

For example, vacuum has nothing to do with your windows.

I think the OP was messing with a vac line at the time.

So is it good now?

[psaboic]

Any update....Did the new battery work??

[Appollon]

Ok, sorry. Lemme give you a better run down here.

I purchased this old gal 2 weeks ago, but the fanbelt broke on the drive home from buying it and it overheated.

I got a belt back on and got it home and started the process of doing all three (as I ended up just cutting the power steering and AC belts, since I couldn't figure out how to get them off, and I was on the side of the road. But, after I took the fan shroud off, literally right in front of my eves, I witnessed the plastic crack on the radiator.

So, I had to order a new one and was immobilized for a week. In that week, I cleaned the engine very thoroughly. I also pulled out all the interior and the radio and installed a new head unit and I ran new speaker wires throughout the car and then put in new speakers.

I got the new radiator and put it in. I put in the new belts, and it started up and stayed cold.

But, it was shifting all crazy, like at super high rpms. So, I found out that the transmission runs on vacuum, and went back in the engine to find it out.

There was one vacuum line disconnected from the main cluster of them on top of the valve cover. I re-attached it, but it wouldn't stay. I looked closer and realized that it wasn't the same size or type as the other ones in the cluster, so I assume the PO replaced it.

I wente to Advance Auto and tried to get a new vacuum hose for it on Monday. But, they didn't have any that fit. The guy told me that fuel line would work though. I put it on, and it did work. The trans was shifting like a dream. I drove home and I went to put up my windows, but they wouldn't go up and the locks wouldn't work.

I got back under the hood and the throttle had caught the new hose that I put on, as I had made it too long, and it was kinked up. I pulled it off and fired up the engine. As soon as I did, the windows and the locks worked again.

I replaced the hose with a smaller length one of the same material and it was driving fine.

I drove it to work yesterday, and when I got to work, the windows and the door locks wouldn't work to get them back up. I turned off the car and opened the hood, and the fuel line had shrunk from the heat and was completely pinched all the way through, and not allowing any vacuum through. Right here is where I realized that the fuel line is not the right answer for the hose there. (since then, I went to Auto Zone and got actual vacuum hose that fits.)

I pulled th hose and went to restart the car and it wouldn't. The starter just clicks. I checked the wires on the battery and they were fine. I put the car in nuetral to see if it was the NRC and that didn't work either. Just clicking noises.

Every time I had started the car prior to this, the starter mad e a very odd noise, like a loud WHURR after the engine engaged, but I didn't put it together that this was an off noise. I'm stupid. This is my first diesel, and I don't know why, but I just assumed it was something that had to do with a different type of engine than I'm used to. I know, I'm stupid.

So, I came inside and searched around, and think that the solenoid is bad. I think that the windows wouldn't go up because the vacuum reservoir in the trunk is empty and I haven't been able to get the engine going to replenish them.

I got a new starter from AutoZone, and I have the battery, battery tray, and air filter removed. I have gotten both of the rear 10mm Allen bolts removed. But, at the rear of the starter, it attaches to that bracket that attaches to the engine mount. I got the top 10mm bolt out no problem, but the bottom one is tight and my 1/4 (sorry mistyped it earlier) socket wrench will not fit in there. The only thing I can get in there is a small 10mm wrench, and I can't get enough torque to move the bolt.

I read that the bracket itself has to come off as well, but I don't know because I can't get the last bolt out of the actual starter in order to see. I tried to get the two 17mm bolts out of the bracket to see if I could just take it all out at once and then take the 10mm out where I had room to get at it, but I can't get to the top 17mm bolt.

And, that's where I'm at.

[funola]

There is no 17 mm bolt on the rear bracket, only 4 bolts that take a 10 mm socket. Use a 3/8 ratchet and a 10" extension to get the 2 block bolts off. Leave the 2 bolts on the starter!

[Junkman]

Let's deal with window and get it to run home. (Never mind, it looks like the starter is 1/2 out. You'll need a good starter to run. The old one may be good but we don't have any way to know until it is off or on.)

Window is electric. Vacuum line has nothing to do with windows rolling up and down. For that you need a battery. Vacuum does operate the door locks but ignore that for now. You can likely get the correct vacuum line from this site. Again, let's deal with that later.

Starter clicking (only) is electric. Spinning may be bendix. You need to diagnose first - before installing a new starter. Go back to my 1st post and follow the battery and cable instructions. Report back when you have a confirmed functioning correctly installed battery. Then we can move on to the starter.

The windows should roll up once the battery is in. If not, test the fuse. Replace the fuse if it still doesn't roll up. Fuses are numbered. Label is supposed to be in the fuse box cover. Otherwise someone can post which fuses (possibly 2) are involved.

[zeke]

"I drove it to work yesterday, and when I got to work, the windows and the door locks wouldn't work to get them back up...... I pulled it off and fired up the engine. As soon as I did, the windows and the locks worked again. "

This seems critical to me.....the pinched vaccuum hose is responsible for the locks, but the windows and starter just clicking sounds to me like a weak battery or perhaps a weak alternator.

The fact that once you fired the engine up again you could get the windows rolled up sounds like the battery was @ <12V until the alternator started turning.

Not sure you need a starter?

I agree with Junkman....follow his advice and try to diagnose the problem before you start to throw parts at it.....

ask me how I know

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by zeke

but the windows and starter just clicking sounds to me like a weak battery or perhaps a weak alternator.


Not sure you need a starter?

Yep.

I've got $10. that says it still won't start with a brand new starter..........and the windows still won't go up.

[whunter]

Originally Posted by Appollon

1982 240d

I'm now on day two of trying to pull my starter...

I am officially freaking out.

Relax, stressing does no good.

If you would tell us what city/state you are in, there may be a local member that can come over to help.

You could also call me to help walk you through this..


TECHNICAL SUPPORT
whunter
ASE Master Mechanic
roy@peachparts.com
Mon-Fri 9:00a-6:00p ET
PHONE# 248-850-7027

[rs899]

I am thinking the alternator started this cascade of events....

I got a belt back on and got it home