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  #1  
Old 09-06-2004, 09:28 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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A Frantz oil filter will be going on my SDL soon! 100K+ before the next oil change!

At the diesel meet on Sunday I was talking to the owner of a 1995 E300D with 316k on the clock. He had installed a Frantz oil filter on it 120k+ miles ago and was having awsome results! The way I understand it using toilete paper as a filtering element is an old but effective idea. It will filter down to sub micron size, it will filter the soot out for example. By doing this you never need to change the oil! All you have to do is every 2,500k replace the tp in the Frantz and add a quart of oil, than every 5k miles replace the oe filter+ the tp filter and add another quart etc. By doing this you are replenishing the oil additives, this is what wears out the oil never does, and the Frantez cleans it well enough that the oil stays very clean. He has had the same Delvac 1 in their for 120k miles and has had it tested every 10k miles and it always comes back good for another 10k! By doing this you are always running clean oil threw your engine, say you change your oil every 5k miles, after say 2k miles some soot starts to build up, the oil suspends it fine but it is still their. The Frantz filter will keep the soot and crap level very low say changing your oil every 1k miles low, so clean oil is always moving around your engine.

The way I plan to install this on my 603 is to copy the way he did it on his 606. I will tap off the oil filter cap, with a 90 degree fitting and run that pressure line to the Frantz, then I will tap my valve cover and drop the nice clean oil in right on the cam/timing chain. I will install a clear filter between the Frantz and the valve cover just in case the tp breaks apart. He did this also because he did not trust it at first. Hopefully the cleaner oil will help the lifters clear out, 603's seem to be sensitive to oil quality. I might still change it, I will get the oil tested at 5k mile intervials for awhile just to make sure it is fine. This will be my project this December.

Junk India filter's are a thing of the past.

This is their web site:
http://www.frantzfilters.com/products.htm
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Last edited by Hatterasguy; 09-06-2004 at 09:44 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-06-2004, 09:32 PM
sixto's Avatar
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Is there a benefit to Charmin or is the Costco stuff okay?

Do you have more info on this Frantz filter?

Sixto
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2004, 09:41 PM
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The fact that Frantz filters clean down to sub-micron size IS NOT a benefit, but rather a disadvantage.

By cleaning and trapping such small particles it also traps the beneficial additives that have been put in the oils by the oil Company. This is not good.

What you end-up with, is very clean oil, minus its intended beneficial additives. I would stick to the Mercedes Filter that is recommended for your car.
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2004, 09:43 PM
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Ok the thread got messed up here is the whole thing. pberku read carefully the additives are not filtered out. Also some soot is left in the oil.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2004, 09:56 PM
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isn't toilet paper bleached and can't that leach out into the oil, thus increasing the acidity of the oil, neutralizing the TBN of the oil. and drill a hole into the oil pan for a return line...
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:04 PM
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How much oil are you bypassing from the engine? I'd be very concerned that you alter the oil circuit such that you bypass enough volume to starve the bearings.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:20 PM
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Hatterasguy, I beg to disagree with you when you sat that the additives will not get filtered out.

If the Frantz filter, filters down to the sub-micron level, than the additives WILL DEFINITELY BE FILTERED OUT.

Phil
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:29 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by pberku
If the Frantz filter, filters down to the sub-micron level, than the additives WILL DEFINITELY BE FILTERED OUT.
No insult meant, but do you have any firm evidence to back up that claim?

I haven't tried a Frantz filter myself, but I've heard good things about them from the truck side of things...and have actually considered using one on my truck...
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:31 PM
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I still have 2-3 Frantz Filters in my basement and did not know that they were still being sold. I would like to talk to a dealer about putting one or both on my diesels.

Had 1 on a 1973 Camaro that I sold with 235,000 miles (350 engine). Never an engine problem and it did not burn oil but I thought that at that mileage, it would soon develope problems and got rid of it. Saw it 2-3 years later on the street and still running. I did change the oil though in addition to the filter. The oil was always black and that worried me until the dealer told me that the color was due to scorching of the parafin in the oil. Whatever it was, it Never seemed to hurt anything. The toilet paper never broke down over the years either. I was worried about that too but it never happened.

Another filter was on the transmission of a 1972 Chev Malibu. Never had any transmission problems or engine problems either but did not keep it 200,000 miles.

The third filter was from a garage sale and I don't know if it is jetted for an engine or transmission.

Toilet paper is hard to find in that size nowadays. Most rolls are too small but I think that Scott Tissue looks to be the same size as always.

Frantz used to have diagrams that showed where to hook up the filters but I don't know if they are still in business.
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:32 PM
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just because your oil is clean doesnt mean it lubricates as good as when its changed every every2k. the oil breaks down after time. i would never do that to my car.
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

The way I plan to install this on my 603 is to copy the way he did it on his 606. I will tap off the oil filter cap, with a 90 degree fitting and run that pressure line to the Frantz, then I will tap my valve cover and drop the nice clean oil in right on the cam/timing chain.
Hattie, first let me say that I am in complete agreement with you on the benefits of the Frantz for filtering the oil in the 603. However, the installation becomes more difficult than you have stated above. To wit:

1) Where to you get high pressure oil from the oil filter cap? No high pressure oil there to the best of my knowledge.


2) The return line cannot go to the valve cover because it will be above the bottom of the Frantz filter. You don't want the oil to travel uphill while it is draining. It will pool in the bottom of the filter.

The plumbing needs to be further discussed for a successful installation.
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2004, 11:23 PM
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http://www.wefilterit.com/ for all who are interested.
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2004, 11:41 PM
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does anyone understand this?
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2004, 12:04 AM
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Hatterasguy,
Below is an extract from a web site that talks about oil analysis and additive size. As you will note they talk about additive size being in the 4-9 micron range. Thus the Frantz filter will filter out this beneficial additives, and leave your oil very clean but basically useless.

This is but one article. There are many more sources which spell-out the typical size of oil additives. They are all in agreement

If you are interested, the web site address from which I extracted this particular article is: http://www.aggman.com/articles/feb04d.htm


Phil
==========================================

A Quick Guide to Oil Analysis Tests

by Andy Page

Emission spectroscopy is the test used most often in oil analysis. Designed to test for wear particles in engines and for the presence of additives, both of which are typically 4 to 9 microns in size, the test has a maximum particle-size limit of 9 microns. Any particle larger than that will not be detected.

Elements present in a lubricant may be additives, wear particles, or contaminants (see Table 1). Most standard oil analysis test results also include measurements of viscosity and the presence of water or glycol. This standard barrage of tests was originally designed by the U.S. military in the early 1950s and it remains a thorough test for engine lubricants today.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2004, 11:41 AM
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Lets see real world on a 606. Oil tested every 10k miles came back ok, for the last 120k. Engine has 316k on it and is in perfect condition. Adding a quart of oil every change brings the additive level back up. The best way to get the additive's out of a multi weight oil is to do what the Navy does on their subs, run it threw a centrifigul(sp?) Spin it around real fast and everything comes out. However you can only do this with single weight oils. The Navy never needs to change the oil on ships, they clean it. battle ships used to use paper towel rolls to filter their oil. Oil doesn't wear out the additive package does and it gets dirty. The Frantz keeps it clean and adding a quart every 2,500 keeps the additives. I will see if the owner will post maybe make sure I have my facts straight. However I will probably still change my oil, the Frantz filter could compliment the OE one nicely.


Brian Carlton good point this install works well on a 606 I don't know how different the filter is from a 603? I wonder what would be a good spot to tap off of? Their is a lot of room in my engine compartment I can mount the filter as high as need be.
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