diesel number 1 or 2? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barkford · #1 09-19-2004, 03:54 PM

Hello Fellow Puffers:
Tried a search to find a thread on diesel #1 and #2. No luck. Does anyone know a good resource to get the details behind these two types of fuel?

Thanks for reading.

R Leo · #2 09-19-2004, 04:32 PM

From somewhere on the 'net:
Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel are the primary fuel for mobile diesel engine applications. Number 1 Diesel Fuel is commonly labeled at the pump as "Premium Diesel" or with a Cetane number of 44 or 45. It is not as viscous as Number 2 Diesel Fuel and for this reason is the choice for motorists during the cold winter months. The disadvantage of Number 1 Diesel Fuel is that it does not have the lubricating qualities associated with Number 2 Diesel Fuel. While Number 2 Diesel Fuel has a higher lubricating quality than Number 1 Diesel, its viscosity can cause rough starting in a cold engine and rough-running in cold weather. Number 2 Diesel Fuel is usually labeled at the pump with a Cetane number of 40.

Home Heating Oil is closest to Number 2 Diesel Fuel in ignition quality and lubricating ability. But before anybody rushes to put this non-road taxed fuel in thier truck, consider this: refiners don't intend Home Heating Oil to be used in an internal combustion engine and the furnace fuel that is sitting in your basement tank may or may not have the smoke surpressants, ignition accelerators and biocides to kill fungi and bacteria that we generally assume to be present in the Diesel Fuel at the pump.

R Leo · #3 09-19-2004, 04:33 PM

...and more:
Diesel fuel lies in the middle of the refined petroleum hierarchy and is considered one of the middle distallates -- slightly heavier than kerosene and slightly lighter than industrial (bunker) fuel oil. Like automotive gasoline, diesel fuel is refined into several sub-catagories or grades. From highest to lowest viscosity are Number 1 Diesel Fuel (1-D), Number 2 Diesel Fuel (2-D) and Number 4 Fuel Diesel (4-D). There used to be a Number 3 Diesel Fuel (3-D), but it is no longer refined.

Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel is slightly lighter than industrial fuel oil and is used in low and medium speed engines that operate at a constant or near-constant speed, such as stationary powerplants or railroad locomotives. Even though Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel has an ignition quality similiar to Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel, it is too viscous to work well in an engine where the load on the engine is constantly changing and requires varying amounts of fuel to be injected into the cylinders.

barkford · #4 09-19-2004, 04:56 PM

R-
Thanks. That's good info. Looks like we probably see mostly diesel #1 at the pumps? Interesting enough, the recommended fuel per the literature on the new CDI is diesel #2. Sounds like viscosity is important although it surprises me that MB wouldn't recommend diesel #1 with likely higher cetanes.

my 210 TD docs says #1 or #2 is acceptable.

Palangi · #5 09-19-2004, 07:03 PM

#1 is not commonly found in most places. I used to see it occasionally in the winter when I lived up north, but I have never seen it in Texas.

#6 09-20-2004, 01:34 AM

I know a guy who works for a big oil company and he says #1 diesel is the same as jet fuel.

invisik · #7 09-20-2004, 03:14 AM

At a local fuel stop, the manager was nice enough to pull out their fuel invoice and found during the summer they buy only #2. I have to check with them in the winter on what the blend exactally is, but I hear it's usually 50/50 #1 and #2.

-m

Mr. FancyPants · #8 09-20-2004, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

#1 is not commonly found in most places. I used to see it occasionally in the winter when I lived up north, but I have never seen it in Texas.

I have been under the impression that in the winter months, #1 diesel is supplied. In summer months #2 diesel is supplied.

Since my last fill-up, my engine has been running progressively louder and rougher, I'm just under half tank now. This happens from time to time. I suspect that I was sold #2 diesel at last fill, as the filling station I use most may have recently depleated his supply of #1 diesel likely ordered from last winter and now may have #2 in supply.

I have only seen one fuel station in my area that labels the pump for cetane!

Steve.........

BrierS · #9 09-20-2004, 06:14 AM

The same lack of labeling around my area also. In fact, when I asked the folks running the counter they don't seem to know what I am talking about. Even the simple question about #1 & #2 results in strange looks. Probably get the same type of response if I asked them what the octane ratings of their gasoline products are even though they are always listed.

diesel don · #10 09-20-2004, 07:47 AM

Could someone explain to me where kerosene fits in here. Some says its essentially #1 and if so, why can't it be run straight during winter months?

I never see #1 at pumps. I do here that there is a mix during the winter but again, no one seems to know anything about it.

Don

bubbazook2 · #11 09-21-2004, 08:47 AM

for the two to three months I've been operating my 300D turbo I've used EXXON. it"s labeled 44-45 cetane at the pump here in beautiful Beufort by the sea, in S.C. that is. ha,ha

#12 09-21-2004, 09:42 AM

Number 1 Diesel is also known as kerosene (jet fuel) or pearl oil. In the old days MB strongly advised against running this in a diesel designed for No. 2. It works fine in a kerosene lantern.

Number Two Diesel is also heating oil. I ran a lot of this through ponton series diesels and it works fine if it's clean. You can use a marine fuel filter to make it clean enough.

In my experience it's rare to find No. 1 for sale without an inflated price. But who knows, maybe we're all millionaires now.

R Leo · #13 09-21-2004, 09:52 AM

This is painfully over-simplified because catalytic 'cracking' of hydrocarbons is not even mentioned. Nevertheless, here's the short story on petroleum distillation from About.com

Quote:

Hydrocarbon molecules of different lengths have different properties and behaviors. For example, a chain with just one carbon atom in it (CH4) is the lightest chain, known as methane. Methane is a gas so light that it floats like helium. As the chains get longer, they get heavier.

The first four chains -- CH4 (methane), C2H6 (ethane), C3H8 (propane) and C4H10 (butane) -- are all gases, and they boil at -161, -88, -46 and -1 degrees F, respectively (-107, -67, -43 and -18 degrees C). The chains up through C18H32 or so are all liquids at room temperature, and the chains above C19 are all solids at room temperature.

The different chain lengths have progressively higher boiling points, so they can be separated out by distillation. This is what happens in an oil refinery -- crude oil is heated and the different chains are pulled out by their vaporization temperatures. (See How Oil Refining Works for details.)

The chains in the C5, C6 and C7 range are all very light, easily vaporized, clear liquids called naphthas. They are used as solvents -- dry cleaning fluids can be made from these liquids, as well as paint solvents and other quick-drying products.

The chains from C7H16 through C11H24 are blended together and used for gasoline. All of them vaporize at temperatures below the boiling point of water. That's why if you spill gasoline on the ground it evaporates very quickly.

Next is kerosene, in the C12 to C15 range, followed by diesel fuel and heavier fuel oils (like heating oil for houses).

Next come the lubricating oils. These oils no longer vaporize in any way at normal temperatures. For example, engine oil can run all day at 250 degrees F (121 degrees C) without vaporizing at all. Oils go from very light (like 3-in-1 oil) through various thicknesses of motor oil through very thick gear oils and then semi-solid greases.

Chains above the C20 range form solids, starting with paraffin wax, then tar and finally asphaltic bitumen, which used to make asphalt roads.

All of these different substances come from crude oil. The only difference is the length of the carbon chains

TwitchKitty · #14 09-21-2004, 07:07 PM

Bump - will edit later

edit: The next post covered what I was going to say. An outside heating oil tank gets kerosene to keep it from gelling the same way a diesel gets #1 in winter. An inside tank gets #2, usually in the basement. Heating oil is often off-road diesel and is dyed red. Frame of reference being rural Maine.

dabenz · #15 09-21-2004, 09:32 PM

Jet fuel (military JP-2, JP-5, and JP-8) is closer to kerosine than Diesel #1. The boilers on the US Navy ships I was on could run DFM (diesel fuel marine) and JP-5 without rejetting the burner nozzles. "Standard" home heating oil is close to diesel #2. But, up here, you have to specify indoor or outdoor heating oil because you don't want the indoor fuel to gell up in the outside tank. The outdoor heating oil is closer to diesel #1 than diesel #2. Confused? Diesel #2, diesel #1, kerosine for our purposes. Diesel #1 can be a substitute for kerosine for a heater, but not always the other way around for an engine.

Trivia: what was the throw-away item in the kerosine refining process when kerosine was king at the beginning of the 20th century? Gasoline!

And to answer the original question? Search on fuel gelling, frozen fuel, or something like that. Bottom line: you're going to ice (gell) a filter if you run straight number 2 in freezing weather.