Walking (or, driving) the talk. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

R Leo · #1 09-23-2004, 11:53 AM

Last weekend, part of the fleet (the Nellybell is still running on dino and Lilly is at 50/50 dino/bio) made the complete switch to WFO/biodiesel. Currently Marlene is running on a 70/30 WFO/biodiesel mix with the transition to at least +90% WFO planned when I have my fuel heaters built and operational (probably this weekend). So far, I only have 50-80 miles on this tank with little evidence of the switch short of a slight reduction in power and an interesting exhaust scent.

In the past, I've run various small batches of WFO and virgin oils that I've filtered but now, I have a regular fedstock source, along with a fully operational WFO collection, filtering and storage system. Little is keeping me from going to 100% plant-based fuel. Up to now, the biggest holdup for me was getting off my butt and collecting the oil which, as it turned out, wasn't nearly as onerous as I'd anticipated (I'm sure there will be some 'teachable moments' in the life of this grease sucker

) because I was prepared. Earlier, I'd sprung for a 12V vane type 'pony pump' from Grainger and screwed it onto a long chunk of PVC tubing for a pickup/suction spear. Harvested up 35 gallons from one place in less than 15 minutes. Über slick

More as this project progresses.

Habanero · #2 09-23-2004, 12:38 PM

Congrats on the conversion. Remember, though, that even though it is a waste product, taking oil in the dumpster does constitute stealing in most circumstances. It is not completely unheard of for grease companies to want to press charges. Just a word of caution.

R Leo · #3 09-23-2004, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habanero

It is not completely unheard of for grease companies to want to press charges. Just a word of caution.

Completely understood. My primary fry juice source is the restaurant of a close friend and is done with his permission and blessing.

Now that I have a working collection and storage system, I'm scouting other venues for the holy nectar.

Habanero · #4 09-23-2004, 01:44 PM

Even with his blessing, the grease company could still charge you with stealing. It depends on how the grease disposal contract is written, but often the grease becomes the property of the disposal company once it is put into the dumpster. It is sort of a gray area and I have never known a grease company to get bent out of shape over a few gallons here and there. But, with the increasing popularity of WVO vehicles, some grease companies may start being more picky about it. If your friend will allow the oil to cool, then put it back into the plastic jugs it comes in it would be much better for all involved. I personally have never gotten a restaurant to do that, though, (most laugh at me when I suggest it) but my sources just put it into metal pails I provide for them.

Fuzzball · #5 09-23-2004, 01:52 PM

Randy, I had no idea you were working on doing this......

So, when do I get the big tour of the factory?

I really would love to be able to do this, but just hearing some of the requirements have made me very hesitant...although the rewards are still pulling at me.

R Leo · #6 09-23-2004, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzball

So, when do I get the big tour of the factory?

Factory? Haw! Come see it anytime...but I'll warn ya, it's just a couple of barrels, a crank pump and a Goldenrod filter.

kip Foss · #7 09-23-2004, 03:53 PM

Randy,

I was using WVO for a while until I realized that between my son's 115/300d (the one you saw in Austin) and my Chevy Diesel that I just wasn't driving enough miles to warrent the mess.

I used plastic 55gal drums. For the raw oil I cut a hole in one drum, built a 7" ring and flange to accept a 25 mic. bag filter and installed a hand operated (later converted to be powered by a 1/2" drill motor) durm pump with a 10 mic. spin on filter. My son got fry oil from Whataburger in convienent 5 gal. plastic containers that I poured in to the drum through the bag filter. When needed I decanted into 5 gal. drums through the hand pump and the 10 mic. filter. The system worked well but in the end wasn't worth the effort with just 2 cars. If I begin running the house on my 20kw gen set I will go back to WVO but just for our few miles it wasn't worth the effort.

I found that it became very difficult to operate the hand pump, hence the drill motor adaption. I thought that the 10 mic. filters were clogging up quickly but as it turns out there is a small screen located under the pump where the suction pipe goes into the drum. It was clogging quicker than I had thought considering that I was using a 25 mic, bag filter. If you split the pump at this flange, and clean the screen it operates good as new.

I also found that the bag filter loads up with fat rather quickly but that it can be cleaned and resued easily. Pull the bag out, turn it inside out (thats the messy part) scrape off the fat, wash the bag in gasoline or some such solvent, then in soap (which I guess you really don't have to do) and you are back in business.

Good luck. Kip

R Leo · #8 09-23-2004, 04:06 PM

Kip,
Thanks for the advice! When cold weather hits and it is a PITA to get and filter grease, I may rethink this whole thing. But, for now, this exercise is as much a political statement as anything.

FWIW, My bag filters are made from the legs of blue jeans. They don't filter fast enough to suit me so, I'm going to build some containment vessels from 6" PVC to hold the filters and push the oil through them under a little bit of pressure...just the head pressure from raising the feed tank up a few feet should do the trick.

BTW, I didn't actually forget about copying those pages for you. Believe it or not, I have the book here with me and will scan/copy them this afternoon. Honest.

R

tenknots · #9 09-24-2004, 08:00 AM

This is a very interesting thread to me. Now that my commute involves filling up the tank every 4 days, I think WVO might be a good idea, especially in warm weather.

Is it true that all you need to do is run it through a bag filter into the storage barrel and then pump it out through a 10 mic spin on?

It seems like every time I start to research this on various forums, my eyes start to glaze over. What about all the chemicals some of the folks use? The old water heater? Lye? The amazing water and FFA absorbing beads? Heating the fuel lines? Heating the hole freaking fuel tank?

Can it be so easy? Even running half WVO cuts my fuel bill in half and means I don't have to pay the oil companies as much.

Any good source of info is appreciated. I want to make the switch.

R Leo · #10 09-24-2004, 09:08 AM

Yes, it is true...sort of. IDI diesels will run remarkably well on heavy oils but there are some caveats:
1) the fuel should be heated to 140°F - 170°F before it enters the IP,
2) it needs to remain 'pumpable'
3) the fuel needs to be 'dewatered' before it goes in the tank and
4) it needs to be filtered to <5µM.
5) it is a mess to collect and muck around with

Obviously, the climate you live in will dictate how much heating and insulating is required to achieve 1 & 2. Feedstock quality determines #3. Shirking #4 is not an option or you'll be on the side of the road. #5 probably depends on your intrinsic fastidiousness and willingness to visit what amounts to the rectum of the restaurant industry.

Do some searches in this Forum on WFO, WVO and biodiesel. Also, search this Forum for contributions by "danalinscott", a pioneer in the development of WFO processing with off-the-shelf components. His site has many 'kits' and plans for conversion and processing systems. And, you must visit this site which is one of the best sources on the 'net for running WFO and or biodiesel.

Feel free to contact me via PM or e-mail for more specific questions too.

Good luck.

Old300D · #11 09-24-2004, 10:16 AM

For an all too brief period this summer I was 100% veggie. The B100 was eating out my fuel lines and I was clogging fuel filters every other week. So I cut back (temporarily) to B20 and WVO. Now I'm gassin' it as I build up my 240D, and parting out the n/a 300D. I expect to have the 240D running either this weekend or next, and get the SVO part back on it by the end of October. It will be B100 compatible this time.

R Leo · #12 09-24-2004, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

For an all too brief period this summer I was 100% veggie. The B100 was eating out my fuel lines and I was clogging fuel filters every other week. So I cut back (temporarily) to B20 and WVO. Now I'm gassin' it as I build up my 240D, and parting out the n/a 300D. I expect to have the 240D running either this weekend or next, and get the SVO part back on it by the end of October. It will be B100 compatible this time.

Prior to WFO, I'd run a couple of tanks consisting of ~3 gallons of B100 with the remainder of the tank filled with diesel. If my calculations are correct, that should net me something like B20. Am I correct? The current mix is probably closer to 30% B100 with the remainder in WFO....only about 100 miles on that tank at this point.

Anyway, I haven't experienced any problems with filters so far (fingers crossed).

Question:
Do you know if there are any natural rubber parts in the injection pump?

Old300D · #13 09-24-2004, 10:39 AM

You are correct. 3 gallons of B100 with a full tank of diesel should net you B20. Before I converted the fuel system to accomodate SVO, I ran for 6 months on B50 (I could not afford straight B100 at $3.00+ per gallon). I had no filter clogging issues at all with the factory fuel system, despite being ancient.

My clogging issues began when I converted the main tank to SVO, and ran start/purge fuel in an auxillary tank. I used 10 feet of new, normal spec'd nitrile fuel line that was supposed to be resistant to biodiesel. Then running B100, the clogging started. When I cut back to B20, I had no more issues, even with the length of fuel line.

This time, I will be running the B100 in the factory steel lines in the factory tank, with all short flexible lines made of Viton. I am going to be running the SVO from the 5 gallon cubes with a special cap with a siphon fitted. This system should work much better.

AFAIK, the injection pumps can handle anything including oil-based paint, but I don't know for sure if the seals inside are vulnerable. I highly doubt they are, or we'd have heard of regular pump failures - there are quite a few Mercedes on the road running B100 for years now.

rmmagow · #14 09-24-2004, 11:23 AM

Diesel 2.15/gal, unleaded reg 1.79. I wanna learn how to burn grease !

R Leo · #15 09-24-2004, 11:39 AM

Thanx, Ol300D for the rubber/nitrile/viton info. I don't know about the guts of all the 616/617 IPs but the delivery valves on my wagon only have a flat copper washer in them which, is (hopefully) bio friendly. However, I think the OM60X engines (and maybe some later 617 IPs) have an o-ring in the delivery valves. I'd imagine it would create some real grief at the injectors for that o-ring to deterioriate becasuse you ran one on B100.

Earlier this year, when I was trying to sort out some off-idle performance issues, I went to my local MBZ wholesaler for those delivery valve seals. Their EPC gave a couple of different numbers for the seals which turned out to be the flat copper washer and o-rings. I bought 5 of each but only had to use the flat washers because that was what was in the IP on my wagon.

Quote:

I converted the main tank to SVO, and ran start/purge fuel in an auxillary tank.

Interesting idea, having a 'small tank' for the diesel purge and putting WFO into the main... I suggested a similar thing to Thing One when he came through last summer in-route to Skagway but never had the time to implement any of the WFO conversion before he hit the road again.