Is this oil filter a scam - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 09-29-2004, 05:15 AM

I came across this on ebay sounds like it has been around a while and no one uses it so it is a scam is it not. The jest of it is they use a roll of toilt paper as a filter oil,fuel transmission. Claming that only a little oil passes through it at a time so they can clean down to less than a micron thats clean. Im going to try to copy some of there ad for you in the know it is called the Frantz filter.
The Frantz Filter is a depth type by-pass filter in which oil from the engine flows very slowly through a dense filter media and is thoroughly cleaned. Depth filtration (as opposed to surface filtration) is universally recognized as the most efficient. The design of the Frantz Oil Cleaner provides 4.4" of filter media depth through which the oil must pass. No other filter design approaches this media depth and resulting efficiencyAs long as your Frantz Oil Filter/Cleaner is properly serviced and your engine is properly maintained we guarantee the Frantz Oil Filter/Cleaner will keep your oil analytically clean 100% of the time. http://www.wefilterit.com/frantz_facts2.htm too good to be true?
Dave S San Jose CA

BrierS · #2 09-29-2004, 05:53 AM

Actually, there has been a fair amount of discussion on that particular type of filter on the forum. Do a search on Frantz and I think you'll find several opinions. If I remember correctly, some of the members use the system and swear by it. Check it out.

AusMBtech · #3 09-29-2004, 06:52 AM

Alot of heavy vehicles use this sort of filter system, but they also use a normal "full flow" oil filter in conjuction with a "bypass" type which filters down to only a few (1-3) microns.

BTW a normal benz filter for a 112/113 engine (fleece type) is supposed to filter down to 5 micron.

#4 09-29-2004, 12:33 PM

sorry I did not do a search I thought I had read the boards well enough but ding on me I will search it out. I like the claim it will filter water from fuel.

Hatterasguy · #5 09-29-2004, 12:52 PM

I posted a thread on them early this month.

oldnavy · #6 09-29-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AusMBtech

Alot of heavy vehicles use this sort of filter system, but they also use a normal "full flow" oil filter in conjuction with a "bypass" type which filters down to only a few (1-3) microns.

BTW a normal benz filter for a 112/113 engine (fleece type) is supposed to filter down to 5 micron.

Standard MB oil filter is 20 micron at the paper part of the element (depending on MFG could be as much as 30 micron), upper cotton filled section does no effective filtering. The 20 micron is pretty much industry standard for paper type element filters. There are filters designed that use a synthetic type of filtering media, such as the Mobil 1 synthetic filters that do filter down to 5 micron or less and should only be used with synthetic oils.

The reason I started using the Wix/Napa filter for these old diesels was I wanted to eliminate all the dirty oil by-passing the paper filter and just going though cotton trash in the upper section of the filter. This I hope will make for a clear oil with less soot staying in the oil alowing me to extend my oil changes, along with the use of Mobil1 Truck & SUV/Delvac 1 oil for diesels.

One thing I have noticed is my oil pressure comes to the .5 bar at normal length of time, but takes longer to go to the 3 bar cold by maybe 15 seconds or so compared to old cotton by-pass filter. I don't think this is anything determential to the engine with the synthetic oil in the engine. Also My oil when at normal temp from highway driving will drop about an extra .5 bar more then before.

Quick conversions 3 Bar = 44 PSI, 2 Bar = 29.4 PSI, 1 Bar = 14.7 PSI, and .5 Bar = 7.4 PSI.

I was reading in my service manual that as long as engine has a .5 Bar reading at idle it is within spec and anything over 1.5 bar was normal for normal driving spec. Sounded weird to me but when you stop to think about it, it does make sense.

RLD · #7 09-29-2004, 03:30 PM

Those filters have been around for years, and yes, they do work very well.
Amsoil has some serious bypass filters as well.
Bypass filters do wonders, every heavy truck on the road has one, without it, there is no way that those monsters could go 12-15000 + miles on an oil change on dino oil

If you happen to have a diesel truck wrecking yard nearby, you might be able to find a bypass spin on bracket pretty cheap and use elements for those available at truck stops.

---------Robert

hockeynut · #8 09-29-2004, 04:45 PM

Old Navy wrote:The reason I started using the Wix/Napa filter for these old diesels was I wanted to eliminate all the dirty oil by-passing the paper filter and just going though cotton trash in the upper section of the filter. This I hope will make for a clear oil with less soot staying in the oil alowing me to extend my oil changes, along with the use of Mobil1 Truck & SUV/Delvac 1 oil for diesels.

I have a local Carquest and Napa that both use Wix filters. I looked at them and they are odd compared to the rest in that the top smaller portion is encased in metal, just like the larger lower portion, not openly exposed elements

I thought they were strange looking and did not buy.
What really irritated me was that I bought a Bosch last month and it was made in Germany, but the one I bought the other day was made in India

I didn't open the box until I got home - now I have to return it. Is Bosch now having all their filters made in India? I'll just have to order from Fastlane - only the Hengst or Mann from now on.

oldnavy · #9 09-29-2004, 06:16 PM

It does look a little different then the OEM style filters, in the fact that you look at it closely and you can see it has the same filter element from top to bottom in Wix/Napa filter. The top portion on an OEM is filled with cotton which has no real filtering abilities and was used as a sort of by-pass filter as the oil backed up at the paper portion of the filter. This allowed the majority of the oil that is going through engine to not be filtered very well, by todays standard's.

The Wix/Napa filter is a full flow filter meaning all the oil is filtered every pass by the paper filter media, which is hundred of times better filtering material then the cotton used by the outsourced products now being built for Bosch, and the other German company's in India, Turkey or where ever thay are being made. I'm not sure what was originally used as the filtering material by Bosch, but it was designed just for stopping basically large particals that could be seen by the necked eye. My guess is the upper section filter only filtered to about 100 micron at bestand lower section filtered to about 20 or 30 micron when these cars were new.

I will be glad when I get enough miles on the oil and filter to send off an oil sample for testing. I expect it to be much better then you would have with an oil style OEM that by-passes so much uncleaned oil back to engine.

psfred · #10 09-29-2004, 08:00 PM

The bypass filter is supposed to remove much smaller particles (to 5 micron, I believe) that the lower full flow filter. This is to help keep the ciculating particulates down. No way to push enough oil through that fine filter to actually lubricate the engine, so both are used.

The bypass filter DOES remove much smaller stuff than the full flow portion, even if it doesn't appear to. Spec is for a cord-wrapped depth filter, I believe, which is what you get with a Wix filter and not Bosch. Stick to Mann or Hengst or Wix, all fine.

A roll of toilet paper will shed an amazing amount of lint before it stops "bleeding" and I would never use one as filter -- besides, even though the oil comes out very clean (eventually....,), just how much oil do you think is going to actually go through it?

Peter

oldnavy · #11 09-29-2004, 09:33 PM

psfred

Quote:

The bypass filter DOES remove much smaller stuff than the full flow portion, even if it doesn't appear to. Spec is for a cord-wrapped depth filter, I believe, which is what you get with a Wix filter and not Bosch. Stick to Mann or Hengst or Wix, all fine.

Apparently you are not up to speed with the filter media that's in these filter now days. Having recently had both a Hengst & Mann apart and posted pictures here, I know what's in them and I also know how they work. Do a search and check it out. You have the two terms for by-pass confused I think. by-pass as how the filter works that this thread started about and by-pass by MB or oppsite each other.

On the MB filter from Bosch, Hengst and Mann the upper section flows out and back to engine as the oil back up in the lower filter section and doing so does not get the fine filtering as the smaller amount going through the lower section. When you oppen the upper section on one of the things it is filled with cotten tailing from the cotten ginn. They use to have a woven cotten twine in the upper section, but no longer.

Here's a link to the earlier discussion. What's in your filter???

oldnavy · #12 09-29-2004, 11:39 PM

Bump for edit above to link

rwthomas1 · #13 09-29-2004, 11:39 PM

Psfred,

Spec is for a cord-wrapped depth filter

What about these? http://www.oilguard.com/ This what your talking about? RT

oldnavy · #14 09-29-2004, 11:49 PM

Went back and reread psfred and I'm not sure if he's talking about the OEM filter and how it works, or a seperate by-pass filter system such as you (rwthomas1) posted a link to above that is used along with the regular oilfilter system.

The upper section of the OEM filter is fefered to as the by-pass section and does not really filter oil, it might filter on a good day at 75 to a 100 micron.

psfred · #15 09-29-2004, 11:50 PM

The flow through the bottom (pleated paper) is directly to the engine bearings, and is a full flow type filter -- everything that it going to the engine bearings goes through the filter.

The upper section (lower section on the old 615 and 617s) contains a depth filter (supposed to be cotton or synthetic cord wound on a core, but these days is often compressed cotton gin trash). The flow through this section is controlled by a small orifice in the filter housing and goes back to the pan, "bypassing" the bearings. Either media will remove much smaller particles than the full flow filter because it is much deeper and denser. Oil won't go through it very fast, though, so it's not used as the main filter. Ditto for a roll of toilet paper.

The density of toilet paper on the roll is high variable -- many "low price" brands are wound very loosely, so it looks like there is a lot on there when in fact there is not. Oil would go through one of those very quickly, with very little filtering. On the other hand, commerical restroom rolls tend to be thinner, harder paper wound much tighter -- next to no flow, but VERY clean oil if any gets through.

Peter