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  #31  
Old 11-10-2004, 01:06 PM
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The day is coming when only dealers will be able to diagnose anything-here in the rusty state of Ohio, just the fact that your ECU throws a code automatically fails the emission test-my wife's Vibe(built with a supposedly near bulletproof Toyota drivetrain)has been throwing codes almost since day 1-and the dealer blames it on the gas!!! They are completely clueless as to the problem and can't seem to diagnose it(it acts like leaking valve seals at startup)-I'm thinking it's back to the future time and am thinking of finding her a nice 300TDT!

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  #32  
Old 11-10-2004, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braverichard
You're kidding right? I hope you really are kidding. What sort of a tune-up costs $10,000. Come on, elaborate.
They yank the engine and drop in another......oops that would be cheaper.
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2004, 01:23 PM
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I keep hearing that $10k figure floating around first for Infiniti then for a Lexus, now a Caddy. I think it is a bunch of crap a "tune up" on a new engine is a new set of plugs, and maybe a few filters. The timing belts are the largest expense now.

New technology is nice my father remembers the days were cars rusted apart and started to die after 70k miles. Remember the 5 digit odo's? Now I can buy a car with 100k on it and it will be only halfway through its life. I like new cars and I would be driving a E320 CDI if I had the money. The old ones are nice but the world marches on.
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  #34  
Old 11-10-2004, 02:07 PM
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Exclamation Major maintenence - not tune up!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy
I keep hearing that $10k figure floating around first for Infiniti then for a Lexus, now a Cadillac. I think it is a bunch of crap a "tune up" on a new engine is a new set of plugs, and maybe a few filters. The timing belts are the largest expense now.

New technology is nice my father remembers the days were cars rusted apart and started to die after 70k miles. Remember the 5 digit odometers? Now I can buy a car with 100k on it and it will be only halfway through its life. I like new cars and I would be driving a E320 CDI if I had the money. The old ones are nice but the world marches on.
Northstar has timing chains and gears.

Here is a SHOCK…
Jaguar is Top-Ranked European Nameplate In 2004 IQS

Jaguar ranks third among 37 automotive manufacturers included in the
J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Initial Quality StudySM (IQS). This No. 3 position is based on consumer evaluations of their new vehicles after three months of ownership. With initial quality that exceeds the industry average by more than 17%, Jaguar surpasses all other luxury brands, with the exception of Cadillac and Lexus.

CADILLAC…

But they don’t offer a diesel engine!!!
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Last edited by whunter; 11-10-2004 at 02:17 PM.
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  #35  
Old 11-10-2004, 02:12 PM
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Yes but timing chains on newer engine go for a very very long time. Unlike MB's of past... M116, M117.
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  #36  
Old 11-10-2004, 08:02 PM
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1. the recent XJ8 jags are very nice cars. the new XJ8L will be lovely. i rent them whenever i can when travelling. a very nice ride: prior to the 2004 aluminum variant, smoother, quieter, and better-behaved than any benz or lexus. imho.

i would own one were it not for the fact that the jag dealer in houston sucks. not to be dealt with.

2. lexus maintenance costs. it is my understanding that the 60k scheduled maintenance can be quite pricey[my mechanic claims that he did a 60k for a client and purchased $8k+ in parts to do the job by the lexus book. this may have something to do with toyota's orientation towards japanese vehicle termination regs - which essentially mandate the removal of 6 yr old cars from japanese highways.

it may also have something to do with how lexus fixes its original sale sticker price.

clearly, if this is a true cost of operation, then lexus vehicles are built to be leased for no more than 3 years, at 15,000 miles per year.

this may be where we have arrived - cars as wardrobe elements. to be discarded with the next change in fashion.

i intend to defy that trend. i enjoy my old benzes. and i especially enjoy the incidents such as the one which i encountered today. i was driving my 1995 e320 cab[white, blue leather, blue top]. at every stop light, it was keenly viewed. at every stop on my rounds, someone took the time to tell me, what a great looking car.

i thank them for their good taste, good design sense. i continue to think it better looking than any of d-c's current cabs.

god bless you bruno sacco.
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  #37  
Old 11-10-2004, 10:27 PM
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I keep hearing that $10k figure floating around first for Infiniti then for a Lexus, now a Caddy.

that does not sound realistic...especially for the infiniti and the Lexus.....both cars seems to be very solid(especially the lexus) well past the 100K mark..Toyota like....and I t seems that the warranty claims on ner cars are almost non -existent on the Toyota branded cars.........how many new E and S classes(and C's) are at the dealer amny time with under 25 miles?...do the math


Warren
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  #38  
Old 11-10-2004, 10:33 PM
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2. lexus maintenance costs. it is my understanding that the 60k scheduled maintenance can be quite pricey[my mechanic claims that he did a 60k for a client and purchased $8k+ in parts to do the job by the lexus book.


that does not sound realistic....I think the first maintenace for an LS430(for instance) is 90,000 miles and the figure is more like $2000.....

and I have heard that prior to that owners having almost no warranty work done...imagine driving a car for 90K miles and nothing going wrong....

should I look at the LS430 again..lol?


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  #39  
Old 11-10-2004, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1
2. lexus maintenance costs. it is my understanding that the 60k scheduled maintenance can be quite pricey[my mechanic claims that he did a 60k for a client and purchased $8k+ in parts to do the job by the lexus book.


that does not sound realistic....I think the first maintenace for an LS430(for instance) is 90,000 miles and the figure is more like $2000.....

and I have heard that prior to that owners having almost no warranty work done...imagine driving a car for 90K miles and nothing going wrong....

should I look at the LS430 again..lol?


1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740i with full sports package and BMW certified warranty
Warren
I had a Turbo Sprint I bought new in 1987 got rid of it 4 years ago. It had very little done to it in 100,000 miles. Wish every car was as reliable as that one was. But it was a cheap car and it was like like having a candle lit at both ends...........it burned bright those 100,000 but it was pretty wore out buy then. But stil reliable.

spoiled me on great milage AND great performance. Like my 300SD spoiled me in comfort.
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  #40  
Old 11-10-2004, 11:40 PM
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No warranty claims for 90K on a Lexus? Absolutely typical!! My mom has been driving Lexus cars since 1990. She has owned four of them and always trades them in once they reach 200,000 miles. She has NEVER EVER had even one warranty claim!! Absolutely!!

Also, the average warranty claim in 2003 for Toyota branded cars is $150 per car. For Lexus, it is $30 per car. For Mercedes-Benz, it is $2,000 per car!!! Last year as a group, DaimlerChrysler's warranty claims exceeded $1 Billion dollars, despite having lower sales, revenues and profits than the Toyota Group. That was when the executives woke up and decided to get to work on quality control. I don't understand why they needed to be reminded to control quality by huge warranty claims. The Japanese are simply better at this game. Now starting in the fourth quarter of 2004, $60 - $100 from every Mercedes-Benz sold goes towards expenses related to fixing the glitches in these cars. Mercedes-Benz just hired an additional 500 electronic engineers to solve its electronic problems. I can understand that Toyota and Lexus are always followers, introducing technologies after Mercedes-Benz invents them. I can understand that Mercedes-Benzes, being what they are, are always more complex than Lexus cars. However, the average M-B warranty claim shouldn't be 67 times more than that for Lexus. M-Bs aren't that many times more complex!!
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  #41  
Old 11-11-2004, 10:36 AM
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I take the JD Power IQS results with a huge grain of salt, maybe two. Here's why. Last year (2003) the three most common complaints about new cars were: poor fuel economy, confusing controls, and wind noise.

This result tells me quite a bit about the average consumer, but not much about the vehicle. Apparently the average consumer doesn't read the Munroney sticker which lists the MPG of the vehicle, can't read the owners manual, and didn't test drive the car.

Don't put too much faith in these quality numbers until you understand their definition of quality - it may be different than yours.

- JimY
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2004, 02:20 PM
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You are very correct. Indeed, those aren't complaints at all. That's why, as I already said, I really value consumer reports because they kind of weigh the severity of the problems on a scale. But you're so right on the ignorant consumers these days. I mean, someone buys a C55 AMG and complains that the ride is too stiff?? Duh!! Or, the most common consumer complaint against the H2 Hummer is that it guzzles too much gas. Damn! People are ignorant!

Speaking of the H2, it averages about 7 - 9mpg in combined city and highway driving. Well, that's another evidence that gasoline should never be put in those huge vehicles. I once met a trucker who drives an 18-wheeler and he told me he averages 8mpg on straight highway cruising. That's just 2mpg less than the best the H2 can get. Yet we all know the H2 weighs only 1% of what those huge 18-wheelers weigh when loaded up with cargo. Is this country crazy or what? I don't get it.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2004, 02:29 PM
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But geeee at least their hands don't smell like diesel............

I guess thats what maters most to them, Not just why the hell a 5 foot woman needs a 4wd Excursion to go grocery shopping when you could do it for a family of 4 in a old VW beetle.
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1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2004, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
But geeee at least their hands don't smell like diesel............

I guess thats what maters most to them, Not just why the hell a 5 foot woman needs a 4wd Excursion to go grocery shopping when you could do it for a family of 4 in a old VW beetle.
You know this whole thing I always hear about your hands smelling like diesel... well, mine never smell like diesel. My fuel station keeps everything clean (Shell) while not charging any higher prices than the competition. But, I've had my hands smell of gasoline after re-fueling one of my gasoline cars.

I don't know if driving such a huge truck is that satisfying to them because if it were, then they wouldn't be complaining of lackluster fuel economy. I've never read a complaint on fuel consumption from someone who drives a gas guzzling high performance car because they understand that they have to give up fuel efficiency for the performance. Somehow, SUV owners don't feel that whatever they get from SUVs make up for the lost fuel efficiency.
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2004, 04:23 PM
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Mostly I think SUV owners are just ignorant that the physics of hauling that much mass up to speed necessitates the consumption of more fuel. Or that SUVs have the aerodynamics of a four bedroom ranch house, hence get lousy fuel economy on the highway. So they complain.

In the engineering world we like to say that if you are ignorant enough, anything is possible.

- JimY

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