Believe it or not, the gentleman I buy my B100 from is a machinest by trade, and he has all but finished the first "prototype" direct injection for these 617/ 616 motors.
I know some will say it'll burn a hole in the pistons, but we'll just have to wait and see.
I can not give any info on the simple way in which he is doing this, but I must admit that i thought that it was quite simple and ingenious. I have seen the parts, or lack of, that he is using. He is using Bosch pencil injectors and the same injection lines will be retained (this was his biggest obstacle - finding a pencil injector that has the same fittings) for simplicity sake of the conversion.
What are your thoughts, good and bad, on this.
All replies appreciated.

Thanks, Adam Bush

Please keep us informed.

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It will burn a hole in the pistons.

Ken300D

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The bosch injector tip has the holes horizontal, so the spray pattern will be similar to that of the original pre-chamber cup. This assumption with the fact that the pop pressure will be 2500 makes us believe that it will not blow a hole in the top of the pistons. The injection timing will have to be retarded most likely, but hopefully that's it. Fuel mileage should go up, as should the noise of the motor, but I like that noise.

It's gonna clank like the rods are going, and will have severely restricted rpm range, probably, just like any other old direct injection engine.

You will have to mess about with the injection timing to get it right, the current timing is likely to be wrong.

Peter

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This is close enough to me that I would like to drive up and have a look when he is ready. I don't see a demand for a system like this but it is a novel idea.

Om 616/617 turbo and non turbo DI are being manufactured by MB subsidiary Bajaj Tempo here in India and in fact they are the default engines used in their LCV and pickups as well as their utility vehicles. They are nosier and rougher than the original IDI engines but are more economical and have better low end torque.

I love the whole idea of converting an old IDI engine to DI, but one thing still gets into my mind.

What are you going to do for a combustion chamber? The old PC was a major strength portion head and is nearly 50% of the cylinder inital firing volume. In other words: How will you distribute the flame with out "melting the pistons?"

Look at ANY DI engine (Even MB ones) and you will see one of the following:
A: "Open" Chamber is moulded as part of the piston.
B: An "energy cell" in the head is used (Like a PC but without a restricted opening.)
C: A "turbulance chamber" (Like an energy cell, but more restricted)
D: A steel alloy "plug" is placed in the piston directly below the injector of some early DI engines to prevent a "hole in the piston."
Or finally E: It is the very odd "opposed piston" engine.

Remember, you want fuel to atomize in the air, not squirt onto the piston.
This will not be as simple as pulling the PC and cutting off the tip and ball pin,
Good luck, I'm not condemning the idea. I very much hope that you can make this work!

I too am very interested in this.......even if its not to do it myself but to see how its done.

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Thanks to all for your comments/ suggestions so far.

Gurkha,
Do you have any pictures/ factory diagrams of the om 616 direct injection?
Thanks, Adam Bush

Interesting. I have seen the PC's in the MB up close and they are different than other IDI engines I have seen. The other IDI's didn't have the steel ball-on-a-stick in the PC and the orifices to the combustion chamber were much larger than the 5 small holes that the MB has. I have wondered what increasing the size of the PC orifices would do for power? Regarding the "severely restricted" rpm range mentioned by psfred I don't follow this logic. How does DI or IDI make any difference to timing advance? Is this not a function of the IP? True old DI engines had restricted powerbands but this was a function of the injection system design, the had a fixed injection timing. If the pump that is being used in this experiment has mechanical timing advance mechanisim then how will the rpm range be restricted? RT

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Hi Check this site out and send them a mail, maybe they can send you the internal pictures, I have seen the internals and can tell you that the pistons and the head along with the injectors and the IP are different from the IDI engine, the pistons and the head have been designed with the turbulence chamber type, the injectors are totally different type with much higher pressure, the IP is different and the crank has been reinforced.

adamb,

Any progress on your design?

What happened to Adam?

He is in the USMC, wonder if he is in Irack?

Charlie

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