I am considering putting a 616 with a 5 speed manual tranny into a "82" Euro TD (non turbo) wagon. I bought the car cheap because It wasn't running,... thers no rust, its a nice color (anthracite gray), the interior is in great shape with manual heater controls, all in all a nice car except the engine has LOW compression and the trannys toast, anyway, rebuilding the eng and tranny are options I have been considering but theres another one. The TD weighs 490# more than a 240D sedan but the 616 engine is about 300 # lighter than the 617 engine. So the TD with the 616 engine would be LESS than a couple hundred lbs heaver than the sedan. I am quite happy with the power I have with the wifes 240D that I rebuilt the engine in, (bought over size pistons so its plenty spunky, for a 240). I am thinking of transplanting that engine and tranny, I realize that I would have to put in new springs and regular shocks in the rear but I dont think that would be a problem. I dont have a doner car yet for pedals, linkage etc... So this is just a thought. I really like this wagon and so does the wife. I sure wanted to drive it before I committed all the $ and energy into it but it doesn't look like thats gona happen. So is it too crazy, putting a four banger in a wagon??

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Does it have the self leveling rear suspension ? That is usually the tricky part on these deals...

The rear suspension is going to give you the most trouble. People always say, "should be easy to just toss in some gas shocks" but it seems to be way more difficult that most people expect, and the resulting handling is often incredibly poor. In fact I heard of someone who got gas shocks put in, then paid to have them taken out and fixed the original rear suspension because the handling was so bad. In fact, I'm not sure if I've heard of any TDs that have been converted to 'regular' rear suspensions that have satisfied the owners.

That said, you might be able to figure out a way to do it.

Another potential solution would be an electric hydraulic pump for the fluid, but that would be a custom job, and it relies on the assumption that the rear suspension is currently functional in every other way.

Either than that, good luck. The 240TD was popular in Europe, so as long as you aren't expecting a race car (and it doesn't seem like you are), you should be just fine with that engine's power.

peace,
sam

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"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Once upon a time we had an 81 300TD. (We had it for 21 years). We had the rear suspension fixed several times. Finally my dad purchased some non load-levelling shocks for it. There was never a complaint, and honestly it handled quite well. It even did well with a load in the back, although it did sit lower. I wish that we had kept the information about the shocks, but they were an off-the-shelf application for another vehicle.

So it can be done.

-Tad

McRoth

I remember you bought a TD about the same time I bought this one, but yours is a driver How do you like it compared to your sedan, still nimble in the parking lot? As much fun to drive?

I sold the Euro 240D with the SLS, it was the first 240D I had ever heard of with SLS, unfortunately I had to sell the head with the car


Sam

Humm...thanks. When I had that 240D with SLS I measured the dia of the material the coil spring was made from and the reguler 240D material was , if I remember right maybe, 3 mm more. Thats why I was thinking changing springs ALSO might do the trick. Woulda been interesting to know if your Dads car woulda sat higher with beefer springs.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Stevo, I really like driving mine. It handles really well & has a really nice smooth ride. Does well in the parking lot too, seems to manuver much like my 240D, even better with the power steering!

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Michael Roth

1982 300TDT Wagon
1982 240D Euro!, 4spd manual-Parts car now, dead engine
88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-fixing up for offroading
1989 Ford F150 (rust bucket) For Sale!
1953 Dodge B-4F, 1 1/2 ton Stake Bed (new restoration project)

FWIW wagon and sedan are the same wheelbase and, from forward of the back edge of the front doors, identical for all intents and purposes.

In the collection, I have both wagon and sedan and in town, I can't tell any real difference but I do prefer the wagon's handling characteristics on the highway...decidely more sure-footed than the sedan. The ONLY drawback to the wagon is that the cabin is louder. I get more road noise from the cargo area.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

First of all, whereintheheckdidjafindafivespeed?

Other than a distinct lack of HP, the thorny problem you'll need to overcome will be the absence of an SLS pump in your 616's head. Other than that, there's no reason it wouldn't work, the engine/transmission (616/5-speed) was offered by MBZ in Europe.

NBD, but if you manage to solve the SLS pump issue, you'll need to respring the front end with springs from a 240.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

If you use the rebuilt engine and trans from your 240D couldn't you use take the pedal box etc. out of that car? What I'm I missing here? 240TD wagons were available in Germany. I'm not sure if those cars had the self leveling suspension or not. You should probably also swap the differental from the 240D so you get the lower gearing. That would also allow you to get the springs and shocks etc.

Ultimately it might be cheaper to find a pick and pull 300D motor and trans. Then just use the original head for the rebuild.

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Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

Expensive but, another option would be to utilize the siameased belt-driven PS/SLS pump used on the later model (W124??) T-wagens. Some fabrication and head scratching would be in order but, it would be one solution to not having an SLS-compliant 616 head.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Thanks for all the replys....Rear suspension.. Yah it has the self leveling. I was thinking of just being able too buy new rear springs, as the SLS uses lighter ones, maybe springs for a 300 sedan and regular shocks.

phidauex

"I'm not sure if I've heard of any TDs that have been converted to 'regular' rear suspensions that have satisfied the owners."

Yah, that would be allot of trouble to go through and have a crappy handling ride, thats what I'm throwing the idea out for...Anybody out there use sedan springs and reguler shocks. Dont think I would be up for the extra hassle of a separate pump.

"R Leo First of all, whereintheheckdidjafindafivespeed? "

Ha, Ha. Last fall I found a badly neglected Euro 240D with a 5 spd, guy didnt know what he had, turned out to be a real nice car after fixing all the usual stuff (and then some). I swapped the tranny into my wifes car and sold it. Actually it had a trailer hitch and a SLS system, had to replace the air cells then it worked fine.

I would like to carry my dogs around and just have the extra room for cargo that a wagon would provide and it would be perfect for the wife to haul kids around.

"If you use the rebuilt engine and trans from your 240D couldn't you use take the pedal box etc. out of that car? "

No, cause I would sell that car after putting another eng and 4 spd in it, its a nice car but it aint a wagon

Maybe rebuilding the 617 would would be the best route.
Thanks again for all the input. I'm going to ask around and see if I can find anyone that has solved the rear suspension problem and is happy with it.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Ok, this is the key. If you're willing to buy new springs, all you need is the part number for the non-SLS rear spring. And there is such an animal - leathermang had a non-SLS wagon at one time. Apparently it was not available in 1982, according to the info from the technical data manual mentioned above. But it definitely was available at some earlier time, and you should still be able to buy the parts. Finding them in the junkyard might be near impossible, but call Phil and see what he can come up with. I was quite surprised to find out when I bought the 300D that Phil (Fastlane) can look up and order euro-only parts with hardly any more trouble than U.S. parts.

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Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

thanks, I wasnt sure where I heard about TDs w/o SLS but as soon as I'm done with the 240D I'm working on now I am gona pull the engine on the TD and decide what to do. I think new springs are only about $60.00 ea but if I go with the 616 then 240D springs would probably be needed in the front, meaning 4 springs ;-);-)

I just talked to Phil and the replacement springs for the NON SLS TDs are $300.00 for the pair

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Rick,
If the non-SLS wagon you are thinking of is the parts wagon Greg currently has, it originally had SLS and was 'converted' to non-SLS by a PO using some rude fittings and strange shocks. All the SLS tubing from engine compartment to rear is intact in that car and you can see where the accumulators were bolted in place (no dirt around the mounting studs).

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

You MAY be able to just transplant the hydraulic pump from the 5 cyl onto your 240 engine. My Euro 240D has the same hydraulic rear suspension as my 300TDT! It's pretty rare, but it may mean that there's a spot to put the pump on the 240D engine.

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Michael Roth

1982 300TDT Wagon
1982 240D Euro!, 4spd manual-Parts car now, dead engine
88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-fixing up for offroading
1989 Ford F150 (rust bucket) For Sale!
1953 Dodge B-4F, 1 1/2 ton Stake Bed (new restoration project)