I agree, and it is my long-term goal to duplicate Casey's FMIC setup. But in the meantime I'll be proceeding with water injection as an alternate method to achieve the same goal (stock pump maxed out safely). My main concern with the WI setup is that if something fails, there isn't much safety net, meaning I'll need to watch EGT's closely any time I'm heavy into the throttle. With a properly set up IC, there's almost no need to even have the EGT gauge installed (after testing confirms peak EGT's are in the safe area.)

Here's the link to the factory procedure on adjusting max RPM on an OM60x pump:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/OM60X/Bosch_max_RPM.pdf


:o

Brandon:
From what Mauri has posted the finn shops do a lot more than just put larger elements in, they also do a bunch to the advance weights and im sure there are a host of other mods. Mauri has said that the larger elements are almost impossible to find here in the states. I've searched and searched around town and on the internet for a shop that will touch a mercedes injection pump. Sure it may be a bosch, but its nothing like a P7100 from a cummins. If it were, we would all have huge grins on our faces and a host of pump shops willing to tackle our projects.

I think methanol injection would also be cool. Methanol has some serious cooling properties when vaporized. It would not be that hard to build your own homebrew injection setup..just a hobbs switch and an injector or some sort to inject it..I do not know if you want to do it pre or post turbo..I think pre turbo would be best since the turbine will "mix" it up for you but it might wreak havoc on the bearings inside the turbo...just some thoughts...
Yeah thats a sweet intercooler install!!

i wonder what kind of hp/tq figures one can expect out of a factory injection pump thats maxed out....those lil elements can only flow so much...

If I'm thinking of the same car it also had a small Eaton based supercharger on the driver side of the car too. There goes your lag...

Holsets are on motors with another cylinder and nearly twice the displacment. Find a compressor map of a T3/T4 vs an HX35 to compare, I very well could be wrong.

I think the Finns also use a non-turbo IP...which is far different than our IP's on the 617.950

hitman no doubt your correct, the cummins engines used the HX-35 forever and they are a 5.9L inline 6...they have large intercoolers too after 92 or something.....perhaps our merc heads dont flow for beans either..

Update -- Well, I received my g-tech pro and my best run was 8.02sec for the 0-60 and 16.24s at 88mph for the 1/4 mile. So my stop watch times were pretty darn close. This is on my 603 124 with the pump adjusted 1.5 turns and the boost is at 14psi. The highest egts were 1250F after a few consecutive runs when the coolant temp went up to 103C.

That's awesome! Couple of questions/comments:

1) For serious testing, the RaceTech AP-22 computer is just fabulous and makes the G-Tech Pro look like a Fisher-Price item. The G-Tech does give fairly accurate 1/4 mile data if set up perfectly, but the trap speed is higher than what the real dragstrip timing lights will show (they average speed over the last 60', the G-Tech reads actual speed at the end of the 1/4 mile - about a 2-3mph difference.) Regardless, those times are pretty good. Too bad you didn't have baseline numbers to compare to. I'd estimate G-Tech numbers around 17.5 @ 80mph.

2) Was the EGT at 1250 at the end of the 1/4 mile (approx 90mph)? That's a little higher than I'd hope to see with an IC installed. What happens if you leave it pinned to 110-120mph? Do EGT's level out at 1250? You need to keep WOT for 30+ seconds - preferably uphill - to see what peak EGT's actually are.

3) I would try reducing boost to 12psi for grins and see what happens. I'm still a believer that pushing more boost than needed robs power due to excess backpressure on the turbine side, as well as increasing IAT's by compressing more than is needed. As mentioned on the Striplin email list, all those mega-tuned diesels are pouring out black smoke - they are running excess FUEL, not excess AIR. Something to think about, anyway.


:o

You need to inject the liquid AFTER the compressor. It needs to spray atomized liquid into a HOT airstream. The liquid evaporates, which cools the charge. The type of liquid is somewhat irrelevant, as it doesn't add power by itself, it's the evaporation process that does the cooling. Water, an alcohol mix, or plain washer fluid should all be fine. Squirting it pre-turbo would be a waste, as it wouldn't evaporate into ambient air temps, and the liquid on the impeller could cause serious damage.


The Finns have indicated that the stock pumps on an OM617 or OM602/603 are capable of approximately 20-25% power gains and that's it. Beyond that, you need larger elements installed, and some way to make the idle circuit function with the increased fuel curve. The two intercooled 1987 300D's here stateside have somewhat confirmed that, as Casey and mdisav's cars both appear to be limited to that power range.

:o

I think you are right Dave. I am going to back down the boost and see what happens to the egts. I do want to get them closer to what Casey has on his wagon but my ic may only do so much. I was unable to get a longer run in to see where the egts leveled off at but I will report back. I did back off the alda because I was doing some major smoke screening at night on the highway when I was dumping it. It did not change the 0-60 times but there is no excessive smoke now.

I did have my best run tonight. 0-60 in 7.98secs. That cooler evening air must be on my side.

Ah yes, forgot about that IC piping they use induces a good amount of lag. :o

I have adjusted my boost from 15psi to 10 psi and everything in between and there is no significant difference in the egts. I stayed into the pedal up to 110mph for a while until I backed off as egts reached 1300F. With the full load still at 1.5 turns I believe what some have mentioned that the turbos on these cars are too small. Is there a recomendation for an upgraded turbo when keeping a stock turned up pump? Maybe just a bigger housing?

I have my cat hollowed out and my rear muffler removed. Maybe with the premuffler removed the egts will go down?

Larger downpipe...

Hit Man X, When I look at the stock turbo intake housing it seems so small compared to other turbos, especially where the air exits. Are you saying better exhaust flow lowers egts more than better compressed intake flow? I believe it is the case but I am curious to better understand it.

Yes there is more room for gas to expand on the hot side, espically under load. You may pick up a tad of power on the high end but it's more important for the exhaust to have room to expand and escape.

Remember, that stock downpipe was designed for stock applications. This goes for turbo gas motors or big street diesel trucks. Turbo gas always spool up a bit quicker due to less backpressure and run silly better on the high end without pressure on the exhaust side... the diesel trucks typically go from a 3 or 3.5" to a 4-5" exhaust for increased flow! :eek:



I believe that the OE turbo is so tiny to assist in building boost as fast as possible, but you can have a larger compressor with a roller bearing center section that'd boost basically the same that'll be far more efficient. BUT this simply wasn't needed when the vehicles were built for 125hp/225tq or what-have-you. T3 turbos come on 2.3L Ford motors, those are pretty small.



Obviously a turbo with a larger cold side compressor wheel and a 3" downpipe would be ideal with a moderate sized intercooler. It'd run quite well like that and what I plan to do once I see how all this IP playing around turns out. The IC core I'd want can't have a high pressure drop so I may take a stock unit from a car and have it recored with a performance core too.

Thanks a bunch Hit Man X!! That really puts it in perspective for me. My intercooler does have a 1psi drop visible on the gauge, especially in second gear. That is when I have boost set at 14psi or below. When I set the boost at 15psi the turbo spools much faster and there is no pressure drop visible.