Pictorial on how to fix your A/C system to get 38 degrees at the vent!
 

Ok all, since this is in the heat of summer, I got sick and tired of sweltering in the heat. I just finished up a great pictorial on overhauling the A/C system with LOTS of pics! I cover expansion valve replacement, compressor and drier removal and install, proper flushing and everything in between.

And...I got the air to blow 38 degrees at the vent on almost a 90 degree day with high humidity.

YOU can fix it yourself, so get out and do it!

Let me know if this helps anyone and suggest other items I can do a pictorial on.
When you get on the page scroll down to neat the bottom of the page.

http://dieselgiant.com/mercedes_diesel_maintenance_tips.htm

I just saw it in the other thread, well done!

Stuff I need to tackle soon, I'm seeing how hardcore I am before I really need AC in Klaus... it's only been in the low 90s and I can take that but the upper 90s/low 100s are looming so I must act here pretty quick.

I guess I am missing something, I couldn't find anything to do with AC on that site.

It is there....down lower on the page..

Thanks
 

Thanks, we can use the help

After the part about fixing the odometer?

Yes you will have to scroll down toward the bottom of the page. I don't know how to put an index at the top of the page that is clickable, so it transports you to the right spot.

I tried everything on the page after the odometer, my computer shows nothing but the return lines.

You didn't flush out the condenser?
Danny

Of course I flushed the condensor :pukeface:

Your pictorial doesn't say that you did?? :eek2:

Here is a quote directly from his procedure:

"Not shown is flushing the conedensor and all other lines. You must do this to make the job complete."

Nice writeup, by the way

Hope this helps,
Tom

I perused the write up quickly, but since I'm on a dial up I did not wait for the pictures. It was pretty well done and gives good advice.

The only things that I worry about are that a rebuilt compressor was used. The R4 has shown itself to be a poor candidate for rebuilding and I'm personally not convinced about the synthetic oil but it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Good job!

well done site! good info!

everything looked good until I saw the FREEZE 12 refrigerant.

This is my opinion of Freeze12 Dural cool and all the wannabe replacements for R12 Freon.

You can compare the them in this manner....

On one side you have Anaa Kornikova...(R12 Freon) and on the other side you have Rosie O'Donnal (the other stuff).

Sure both are women....they have women parts and they both can funtion as women.

But what would you rather have?

Good job on the write up and it makes me think that even I could do it! I'm hesitant though as to how I could flush the evaporator on a 124. Did you get much dirt/old oil out with the flush through the evap?

Thanks
David

Nice page. I have a couple of questions. Is replacing the expansion valve really necessary or can it be cleaned? Is there a difference between remanufactured and rebuilt? I am going to do this in the next couple of weeks.

Yes the expansion valve should be replaced. It was original and it only cost a few bucks to replace.

Almost no debris came out anywhere except some old oil . I was really glad for that.

Now about using Freeze 12. I was going to use R-12, but when I pickup up the tank, oh my :eek: It was empty. So I elected to use Freeze 12. It works fine, I have 38 degrees at the vent and the proper low and high side pressure. Given the choice I would have used my free R-12, but I really did not have the choice. I dont mind using the rebuilt compressor, and I think the synthetic oil will make it last an acceptable time. I will say this. Running this compressor with the synthetic oil makes it run totatly silent. I can tell a huge difference with the oil being the biggest factor. When the clutch engages you cannot hear the compressor. Its really weird.

My friend is a BG dealer and he told me about the oil. I told him I did not believe it would make any difference, but now after using it I am sold. I used some BG oil/freon called Fregi Fresh in an Astro van I just sold. I was also flabergasted at how it lowered the whirling noise when the compressor kicked on.

NO I DONT SELL BG STUFF! I just like making my machines last longer. So I guess I found a winner.

DieselGiant,

Very good write up and very good pictures too. I read throught the entire write up and noticed you didn't replace OR indicate that the hoses ought to be tested for leaks. With a 20yo car, at least 1 hose, maybe more, will have a leak close to the fittings. Sometimes there are wear areas due to chaffing. Just went through my 84 300D last year and had to have two hoses rebuilt (in addition to the usual suspects).

I also follow Larry's opinion that for $200 you could have purchased a new compressor. The R4 is not a good candidate for a rebuild. You may get lucky. But almost ALL the on-line A/C forums (and local "experts") all agree that the R4 kind of sucks for a rebuild (pun intended).

Last but not least, there is an assembly lube for the o-rings and your post didn't mention that. Did you lube the rings prior to installation?

I think he mentioned Nylog...which is the cold flow lubricant....

Where does one purchase this? Will this work with R12 also?



I've yet to look into rebuilding a few hoses, can you let me in on what that ran you?

I need to do the lil one from the Dryer/Accum to the Condensor (or just buy it new if I could find it!) and the one from the Dryer/Accum to the Expansion Valve (it's about $80).

That's all I still need to do aside from order some R12 now from ebay.

On my write up I indicated that I tested the system to be sure it had no leaks before I took anything apart. So yes I tested for leaks.

On every joint I opened I also indicated that the o ring was replaced. Yes I used some oil on the o ring when I put it back together.

The purpose of the pictorial was to show the major portions of doing the job. It was never intended to be a "step by step" instruction manual for the non mechanical. I am assuming when I do the various pictorials, the reader is at least a DIY and can tell the difference between a wrench and a screwdriver.

I can write up a very detailed manual, but feared it would bore the readers on this forum.

Bottom line is to encourage YOU to do the job yourself and quit paying the mechanics house payment. :rolleyes3

Very good write up - thanks a bunch!

I guess Larry Bible didn't notice that you used Freeze12 in the repair. :D :D :D

Nice write-up. Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce that piece. I would like to point out that I didn't notice anything about changing the fittings or installing a sticker to alert later servicers that the refrigerant in the system has been changed from R-12 (required by law). If neither of these things have been done, subsequent owners stand a high likelyhood of unintentionally mixing refrigerants. Not a good thing.

I think the general opinion of freeze-12 is that it is not quite as good as r-12 but it is ok if you are completely changing out the system and not using it as a recharge. I'll be interested to see if the a/c lasts as long as the car or for how long. :)

Contrary to popular "bench racing" on this whole freeze 12 thing. I have used it in several cars with great results. I wonder how many that dont like freeze 12 have actually used it. My guess is most havent. They are "throwing-up" :pukeface: stuff they have read on the internet etc., etc,. so let the nay sayers say all they wish.

I used it before with great results and I would use it again.

I usually dont give an opinion on A/C stuff unless I actually "experienced" it myself.

But to each his own and I am enjoying A/C cold enough to turn it down to low fan speed. Anyone care to do the same??

"Contrary to popular "bench racing" on this whole freeze 12 thing. I have used it in several cars with great results. I wonder how many that dont like freeze 12 have actually used it. My guess is most havent. They are "throwing-up" stuff they have read on the internet etc., etc,. so let the nay sayers say all they wish.
I used it before with great results and I would use it again.
I usually dont give an opinion on A/C stuff unless I actually "experienced" it myself.
But to each his own and I am enjoying A/C cold enough to turn it down to low fan speed. Anyone care to do the same?? "--- Diesel Giant
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I have not owned Rattlesnakes either.....but I can surmise from accepted physics... poison, long fangs, mean spirit....and reports from others who have been harmed by them.... That I don't like them.

It should be obvious to anyone who does any checking that I quote standard philosophy as expressed by the Mercedes Factory Shop manual on Air Conditioning... along with backups from my Auto Air Manual and a Generic HVAC manual used by community colleges....
and if I can't find it there I call Tray at Carlisle Auto Air in San Antonio.... who has been in the business for 20 years... and his last name IS Carlisle.... LOL
I stand by everything I have said about Air conditioning .... which includes the fact that you can do whatever you want to YOUR car... I am just making sure the other side of the equation is posted for our ' audience'....

How did snakes get into this whole discussion??

Like I said before, everybody has an A/C opinion. Ask 10 experts and engineers and get 10 different answers. I can always find an opinion from an engineer that is an expert in their field, ask another expert and get a different answer. Why do you think auto engineers do one thing one way and change it in the future?



Bottom line is get it fixed and blowing cold :D

All else is just HOT air. :sun_smile

Oh and for the record I was not and did not direct my comments at you Leathermang, but somehow you took it personal.

I think the concept is " analogy"... I don't have to deal personally with Freeze12 or Rattlesnakes to be able to judge the physics of the situation...

The rest of your statement ignores what sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom... lacking instinct compared to other animals.... we have an extended period of learning before becoming adults... called neotony I think..
an ability to learn and deduce from known and proven physics to other situations with which we have not had to have direct ' ownership' experience.
That way each of us does not have to reinvent the wheel....

Someone needed to answer.. and since answers have screen names on them.. here I am...
Don't take my answers as directed to you either....they are directed at the people still making up their minds about the physics of the situation... which obviously does not include you... even though you admitted R12 is the best and you would have used it... I think you simply let a small impediment... the tank being empty .... throw you for a loop... and you lost site of the fact that R12 was invented by scientists to fill the parameters of the equipment which they made your air conditioner out of...

Ahhh...you really need to chill out, quit taking it so personally.

I had two of my hoses rebuilt at ACkits.com in Phoenix. Cost was about $55 total. I had the two expensive hoses rebuilt there and bought one new one that was only $15 more from the factory. Carlisle and one other place that is frequently mentioned on this board can rebuild. I can't remember whether it was the suction or hi-side hose that lists for $350!!!!

The only caveat with using a new rebuilt compressor with your old hoses is I lost a day because we couldn't find the correct seal to mate the old hose to the new style compressor. Napa didn't have it and didn't have anyone on a Sunday that knew anything.

"Like I said before, everybody has an A/C opinion. Ask 10 experts and engineers and get 10 different answers. I can always find an opinion from an engineer that is an expert in their field, ask another expert and get a different answer. Why do you think auto engineers do one thing one way and change it in the future?"--Diesel Giant

To claim that there are no such things as facts... or that all ' facts' have equal value in making decisions is just false.
It is true that that game is often played in courtrooms... but savvy juries punish lawyers who hold that concept.

Do you own any books about Air conditioning ?
Have you read them ?
Did you think you understood them ?

Hint: You missed some concepts and it is not fair that you try to 'sell' that misinformation to unsuspecting readers of this forum. The ones in the know will just ignore your ' experiences' ... but others need all the show presented.. and I am not taking it personally .... You have been throwing softballs... and you don't realize that each time you post about things other than physics more people see the error of your thinking and the vacousness of your arguement.
Given the subject matter that was a pun...

"To claim that there are no such things as facts... or that all ' facts' have equal value in making decisions is just false.
It is true that that game is often played in courtrooms... but savvy juries punish lawyers who hold that concept." Leathermang wrote

A) I never made the quote above
B) You use spurious arguments and conjecture in analogies that don't apply
C) You missed the whole point to the pictorial
D) I took a 20 year old car with non working A/C, completed a write-up not for the "experts", but for the average guy who wants his air cold.
E) Just let it go..............
F) We live in an imperfect world so those of us who can, improvise get-r-done.
G) If you don't like the way I fixed the A/C then I invite you to fly, drive, walk to Atlanta and redo it for me. I doubt you will get the A/C any colder, though. But if it bothers you as much as it seems to, then please come and rectify it for me. :rolleyes:

That is STILL my interpretation of your " experts" paragraph...
Put me on your " ignore" list... check the user CP for options to do that..
I am not talking to you... I am talking ABOUT what you have said and done....keep that distinction in mind if you can...

If you will look more carefully you will see that that was my statement... I did not put quotation marks around it and attribute it to you...

Can anyone elighten me regarding Freeze-12? The SD supposedly has Freeze-12 in the system based upon the sticker under the hood, however, when the indy checked the system he confirmed that it was standard R-134. Would these two have the same properties?? :confused:

Ignor list??

Sombody got their feeling hurt today.


I am sure everybody reading this thread is tired of this line of conversation, so just step to the side and I will do the same.

Not me.... I was having too much fun... you were lobbing softballs...
It looked like you were getting angry...and some people don't know about the 'ignore' list.... if you really can't stand to see a particular person's posts...it is a great tool.... Larry Bible claims that I am on his....

134a is NOT the same as Freeze 12. Evidently the sticker is wrong. Maybe sombody converted it in the past and then put in that garbage 134a in later.

My system was converted to 134a somtime in the past. Boy am I glad I decided NOT to use it again.

In a nut shell Freeze 12 will cool better than 13 4a in most retrofit applications. Freeze 12 has a pressure curve which is close to R-12 while 134a operates at significantly higher pressures than R- 12. It can work with the existing mineral oil and does not require lubricant replacement as 134a does.

I'll still stick with R12 like Leathermang and Larry bible recomend...getting the R12 is little harder to get than the other stuff...and with the effort I will be making to fix the W123's issues its trivial in extra cost and extra effort....

Excuse me but, wasn't this an airconditioning thread? Jeez. :confused:

From this site:
 

http://autorefrigerants.com/freeze12faq.htm

"ANSWERS TO COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT FREEZE 12®

What is the EPA status of Freeze 12 ? Freeze 12 is EPA acceptable subject to use conditions for mobile vehicle air conditioning.

Are Freeze 12 and Freezone the same? The two are similar in formulation, but are two different products. TCC only markets Freeze 12.

Is Freeze 12 military approved or approved by TARDAC or MEEP? No, it is not.

How much will Freeze 12 cost? It will be priced less than R-12 was in 1995.
What is involved in a retrofit to Freeze 12 ?

The law requires that the existing refrigerant in the system be evacuated and unique fittings and a label be installed with any replacement refrigerant.

Also, if the A/C system being converted is equipped with a High Pressure Relief Valve, a High Pressure Cutout Switch must be installed in accordance with EPA SNAP regulations.

Use of Freeze 12 does not require that the lubricant or other components be changed.
What are the requirements for recovery equipment with Freeze 12 ?

The EPA requires that recovery of Freeze 12 must be done with a dedicated recovery unit. TCC offers a competitively priced unit for this purpose.

If Freeze 12 is recovered out of a system what should be done with it? TCC has a return cylinder program for the recovered material to be sent back to us.

What is the warranty of a new compressor using Freeze 12 ?

At this time some evaluations are taking place which will determine the warranty situation of a new compressor using Freeze 12. Currently there are no new compressor warranty endorsements for Freeze 12. We expect this to change as there were no new compressor warranties in the beginning for R-134a retrofits and now most compressor manufacturers offer them. "
----------------------------------
Key concepts in this page which might cause concern for a car owner...
"dedicated recovery unit" ... you can find people with 134a and R12 recovery units... how likely is it that someone will invest in this next time you want to service your charge ?
"high pressure cutoff switch to be installed if your system has a high pressure relief valve"
"No New compressor warranty endorsements"... the left handed way of saying that using Freeze12 may void the warranty you get with a new compressor.
Bottom Line :
Since R12 is available at reasonable cost... why would a person choose to add these drawbacks to his future AC maintenance ? No good reason which I can figure out....

Brian,

Freeze 12 is ~80%- R134a... and ~20%- R142b AFAIK

This makes perfect sense. Probably why the indy confirmed R-134 for the Freeze 12.

Must have better performance than R-134 if it achieves 38° outlet temperatures.

This thread is a nice break from "will 20" wheels fit on my, like, 123?", or "dude, how can I make my 240 go 135?".
Good old fashion adult debate. I enjoy when I have to get my pocket dictionary to look up a word. Come on, admit it, not all of yall knew those words either! :D :D
I hope what doesn't get lost is the fact that I, and I'm sure others, appreciate the instructions along with PICTURES! We also appreciate the facts supporting other views.
So, having said all that, get back to it boys...... :eek:

Only one of the AC piks was visable. All the others had a small 'x' in a square.

Any fix for this?

P E H

If you are on dial up you may need to hit 'refresh' a couple of times. Or you can right click on the square and left click 'show picture'.

You are right. As I said in my post, I quickly perused the info. I did not notice that it was a Freeze 12 job. As you wisely noticed, if there are no fittings and conversion sticker I would be very careful about posting this for public viewing. This system is in violation of FEDERAL law. FEDERAL law requires that any system with alternative refrigerant have the appropriate fittings and be labeled as a conversion. Violating Federal law is his business, but I hope that it is not noticed by the Federalies.

I still think that the write up and pictorials are well done and informative even if it is not done the same way I would do it. My hat is off to him for documenting the procedure. There is much of it that is helpful to folks regardless of what refrigerant or compressor they use.

Have a great day,

So, there are proper fittings for R-12 and there are different fittings for R-134.

What's the fitting for Freeze-12? A third type? Same as R-134? Where is it specified?

These fittings rules are all to do with recovery. Most home DIYer's don't have to worry about this with freeze-12 or r-134a. The fed won't come after you. However if you decide to have work professionally done or plan to sell the vehicle they need to know that the fluid is different and need a special container of for that kind of refrigerant or mixed refrigerants to recover freeze-12. To facilitate this the government requires special fittings for each refrigerant type. I do not know if there is a standard freeze 12 fitting.

Most of these rules and regulations are to help professionals and discourage DIY'ers and supposedly save the ozone. While less ozone depleting r-134a which is 80% of freeze 12 and I assume the other component contain ozone depleters as well but are not as serious. However the government has decided that shops must recover them.

I don't believe the feds will come after DIYers unless you shine them on. Just look at the IRS and how many people still get away with not paying taxes or tax avoidance or honesty.

Brian, on the site I referenced above concerning the Freeze12.... it shows the fittings which they sell with their installation kit...
Looks to me to be the 134a fittings... with the addition of the Freeze12 Notification label .....