Hi, I am looking at a 406d for sale that is currently having engine troubles...

Trying to find out more about it, specifically, what diesel engines could go into it easily...

I believe it has a 2.4L 616 series engine.

After reading around, it seems that I could possibly put an om 615/616/617
into this van...

The engine looked to be the same as an early 70's 220d I once had...

Basically, I am interested in learning what engines (that could be potentailly found in a junkyard in the states) would make for a (relativley) easy swap..

Not that I mind going slowly, but I wouldn't mind having a little extra power, as top spd is about 50mph or 90kmph...

How difficult would it be to put in a 5cly engine from a 300d / 123 series?

What would you suggest for a junkyard engine (keep it diesel please) that would fit or not require too much fabrication and still give just a bit more power and mate up with the tranny.

Thanks for any input!
Greg

sorry for my ignorance- I have been a primarily vw guy up until now- I see now that 617 series is refering to 5cyl engines... currently has 616 (4 cycl ) diesel.

Any help, ideas, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Greg

bolt to any tranny that a 616 will bolt to. so it is a matter of space. it is 5 to 6" longer.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Check out this 409d

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=931481#post931481

It's a non-turbo om617 (5 cylinder). From the pictures, it looks like a turbo OM617 conversion would take some bodywork.

PM Kerry Edwards, he owns one and knows them well.

the motor mounts also will bolt up. and oil cooler, and the guages, alternator and pretty much everything. they were built to go into the same car. if you do it you will prob need a bigger radiator. everything else should bolt up...if there is enough length.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I'm not real familiar with the 406d. If it is a '6' then it's not a 616 engine. The 616 engine is a '7'. So, I'm guessing it is the 220d engine
Again, I'm not familiar with the 406d but if it's like the 206d's then it's a front wheel drive van. Is that true? If so, then the comments about swapping in a 617 become quite different because I don't think any of us know if a 617 will bolt up.
Do you have a picture of the van? Is it the small van chassis somewhat similar to older VW vans, or is the larger van chassis that became the 508?

I think the biggest problem you'll face, even with an engine swap is the gear ration in the final drive. I don't think swapping in a 617 will give you a higher top end without changing the gear ratio. I'd check into whether different gears are available before doing the swap if you want a higher top speed.

Kerry

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

If it is a solid rear axle then gear ratio is not a problem that money cant solve. Juse swap in a domestic rear end. A custom 4x4 shop could do this for you most likely. Once that is done you have an abundent supply of rear end ratios.

__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro

The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels

If the captions in the following links are to be believed, a 406d looks to have the same sort of 'pre-sprinter' body as the 409 and thankfully, is not that terrible Hannomag FWD beastie. I can't imagine how underpowered that thing would be with a 220 engine.

406d - 1

406d - 2

406d - 3

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

You're right. It's not the Hanomag type. However, it's also not the pre-Sprinter type. It's the next bigger van chassis to the Sprinter types. The one I have is built on what I believe is called the 201 (?) van chassis. This is the smaller version of Mercedes van chassis. The 406d is built on the chassis that is bigger and heavier--roughly the same as the 508d and the 309d's that were imported in the US as buses.
It probably is the 220d engine but they also put direct injection engines in these bigger chassis as well as the 615 engines. I've never seen or heard of one of these larger chassis vans with the 617 engine. I'm not saying they wre never built, it's just that the 617 was rare enough in the smaller chassis and I think if they were looking for more power in the bigger chassis vans, they went with the direct injection engines, OM 314 or OM 352.

To get an idea of what is possible, you might want to go to www.mobile.de and so a search on Mercedes 'Wohnmobiles' (motorhomes). You should find some 40?? there and you might get a sense of what other engines have been used.
From what I've read, none of these bigger chassis vans were ever built to run much faster than about 55mph so Coachgeo's idea of a complete rear end swap might be the best option if your looking for a higher top speed.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I see the difference in bodies now...thanx! Even with the exchange rate, most of those older units seem pretty reasonably priced.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

I think what happened was that when MB was building vans like the 406d, the smaller version was the Hanomag and the bigger version looked like the 406d.
When they upgraded the body style to look like the one I have, both the smaller chassis and larger chassis had similar looking bodies. Both had sharper lines than the earlier more rounded style. The bigger chassis though had a much bigger body. It is often hard to see that in photos since the bodies look stylistically identical.
By the way, MB sold the tooling for those earlier chassis to an Iranian company and they are still building that older style van. The sold the tooling for the style of van I have to the Indian company Tempo, which is still producing them along with the earlier G-Wagons.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

thanks for all the responses!

Well, I have been poking around, can't really find any info about the DI engines mentioned above in us vehicles? I am really looking for something that I could potentially find in a junkyard in the states or canada... Any advice?

As far as tranny goes- I had thought of max rpm issues, great idea about the axle swap though- but Im not shure I have that kind of funding at this time... how much could one acomplish with changing tire sizes on a vehicle like this?

Any info on gear ratio swaps/ setups or sources for these parts? I will be able to provide more info about the tranny soon (4spd)

Well I am going out to finalize the deal tomorrow, I haven't given up on the existing engine yet (I like going slowly, currently drive a diesel vanagon), just trying to look into my options...

thanks!
Greg

I'm curious about the price if you don't mind divulging it since I'm selling my 409d.a A 309d just sold on Ebay yesterday:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574172095&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A112

There are a fair number of the MB direct injection engines in the US because they were used to power the refrigeration units on tractor trailers. I have no idea whether the tractor trailer version is a bolt in replacement for the ones in the vans.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

you couldnt use taller tires.


tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Hmm I will keep my eye peeled for one!

__________________
1981 300D 147k
1998 VW Jetta Tdi 320k
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 141k
1979 300D 234k (sold)
1984 300D "Astor" 262k(sold)
Mercedes How-To and Repair Pictorials
I love the smell of diesel smoke in my hair