I agree. It must use the TDC sensor as a reference/ time base to measure the IP/RIV lug angle position. That's why there's such a tedious procedure in section 03-345 of the W123 FSM - Checking and correcting adjustment of TDC transmitter. A similar procedure for the W124 probably exists.

http://mercedes.thatchermathias.com/w123CD2/Program/Engine/617/03-345.pdf

The timing light I am working on can trigger off the TDC transmitter or the RIV port lug. On my 85 300D, when the timing light was triggering on the TDC transmitter, the harmonic balancer marks was spot on at 20 degree after TDC (per FSM spec). That indicated the TDC transmitter was correctly adjusted. Does that also indicate there is no chain stretch?

It's not necessarily TDC, there is a bracket which senses the harmonic balancer, but I think it's 20° off from TDC, or something like that. It just needs a reference point. And yes, I believe there is a procedure to adjust the bracket for the TDC sensor.

Chain stretch is totally separate, you really need to check the camshaft marks vs balancer. The IP can be adjusted to match the crank but the camshaft could still be out due to chain stretch. Remember the balancer indicator is adjustable a total of 3° (on the OM60x) and if it's ever been touched, you could be a couple degrees off. The indicator has to be removed during a water pump R&R so it's pretty likely to have been disturbed by now. I re-adjusted mine to TDC via dial gauge on the piston while the head was off...

BTW - just noticed you have all OM61x. Ooops. I was referring to OM60x... sorry.

:stuart:

OM61x. or OM60x... , aren't the procedures and equipment used for timing the same?

I see Brian Carlton is banned. He is not far from me and I'd like to hook up with him to compare readings of my timing light vs his AB light RIV tester. Anyone know if Brian can be reached via PM while being banned? Anyone in contact with him?

I got a hold of Brian via email. We will be getting together when it gets warmer. Should be interesting comparing results.

Dynamic RIV tools
 

Hi,
I am the proud owner of an AVL 823. I don't have the RIV sensor though, but found your message whilst researching it, Mercedes part number 617 589 10 21 00

The part you mention correctly has a loop for an inductive spark pickup and could be used with any such strobe or engine tester, but the RIV probe I mention plugs directly into the AVL 823, the same socket as a clamp impulse detector KG-6 etc. for injector lines

I am currently trying to find a wiring diagram for the RIV, or somebody willing to give me the pinouts and short locations (how it determines which device is plugged in) from the cable plug.

I have got full data and circuit descriptions and diagrams of the AVL 823 diesel tester, but there's very little on the RIV sensor, which can be used dynamically as you say. I'm sure this device could be interfaced with a timing light without the rest of the boxes with a little imagination, it's probably just an inductive pick-up.
If you could use the manuals (.pdf) just let me know. :)

617 589 10 21 00 RIV transmitter is available special order non returnable from Pelican parts for $525.00! Did you try contacting AVL? Maybe it's cheaper from them?

Sure, I'd like to see your manuals. Maybe I can even build you a RIV transmitter if I can figure out what's required (from looking at the manual- if it has the details needed).

RIV transmitter pinouts
 

I hate to mention this on an oilers page! (I do drive a diesel of course!) My hobby is small generators, and I got the AVL 823 to help with diesel timing on the Chinese clones of the single cylinder Yanmar engines, where it performs well.. what I'm trying to do is actually interface a spark pickup (inductive) to the Transducer socket, so I can use the rev counter on petrol (gas) engines, my next step is to compare the outputs from both to see if some attenuation is required.
I was hoping for the RIV pinouts so that I can see if a short is required for switching between the injector line transducer or RIV pickup.

I got the AVL 823 (branded LUCAS in the UK) for a song, about 65$ and after a clean it was like new. I have contacted AVL, to get the manuals but they are not very helpful with obsolete (their words not mine!) equipment and I don't need a proper RIV as such!

Thanks so far, and what is the best way to get the manuals copies to you?

PM sent

Got a sort of result! Lots of reading the maintenance manual gave me the idea that there was some sort of selection process to differentiate between an RIV sensor and a KG (injector line ) sensor, and it was a short between RIV/KG select line and KG low volts which is also fed volts cc via a pot. devider
So it recognised the device, a simple spark inductive pickup, consisting of a ferrite loop and coil of about 0.3 ohms...

I had to test it on my mower! (I don't drive a gas car and the Honda is awaiting parts,) it is reading RPM x 2 I believe!

Bcak to the drawing board! I might just try putting the inductive loop on the KG (inj line) input next!
:D

Hey. Are there any members who have a digital IP position sensor they would be willing to rent out for a week?

I sent a PM to MB Doc, but I haven't heard back. His reference to renting one out is a few years old.

Tim

I do have the tool. I will rent it. I have to get full price for a deposit. Rent is $30. I can use paypal.

Where are you located, and what is the full price deposit?

Tim

Somewhere in the 500$ range . It is hard to ask for such a large deposit, but I can't loose out if it is not returned. I will have to see what the price is now. It seems to be going up. last I checked it was $420 but seems to have gone through the roof at $550. I will make a call and see next week.
Holidays are extreme for me as I am one of Santa's helpers. I can try before holidays but not sure. PM me

Last I heard the A-B light box tool (617-589-08-21-00) was NLA as of 2013 or early 2014. Not sure if that's the one you are referring to or not...

:stuart:

I posted to this thread in 2014 while doing research in building a timing light. I never followed up with the result. It is a finished project and has been working great.

Click to play video. Excuse the rapping noise. The inductive timing light was laying against the power steering pump vibrating/ making the noise while I held the camera with one hand and operating the throttle with the other.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...308_144220.mp4

Any chance on sharing parts info, design, specs??

No chance of that. My original intent was to build one for myself and if successful build them to sell. I have not done much with the latter.

Check out this YouTube, Dieselmeken demonstrates the use of this tool. It is on a 606 but the principle is the same for the older engines as well.

https://youtu.be/2DHD6UoALto

Have read the threads for the A-B light Box (static) #617 589 08 21 00 to time the IP. Would like to purchase a new or used unit. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Rebuilding three 603's.

At samstagsales.com the A-B Light is listed as no longer avaliable.

However, you said you are rebuilding the Engines and the Timing Locking Pin (around $37) is made just for that to time the Fuel Injection Pump when you are inserting the Fuel Injection Pump into the Engine.

In the diagram showing theTiming Locking Pin installed I circled the area where the timing locking pin locks into a tang on the governor weight carrier.

That is the same tang on the governor weight carrier that the A-B light uses when you use it for timing. Because both tools use the tang I don't see that the A-B light would do a better job of timing then the Timing Locking Pin.

In that video I linked Goran actually shows both methods, using the RIV box, as well as locking the pump down with the locking bolt.

In either case you want to make sure you have accomplished the following:
- You’re on the correct cycle for the engine, remember that 720 degrees of rotation is one complete combustion cycle, and you have to be at #1 TDC on the compression stroke for the IP alignment to count. The way to find this out is open the oil cap and look at the two cam lobes for the #1 cylinder (616/617/603) and make sure they’re “up”, or look for the dot on the 606 cam gear (since it’s DOHC you can’t see the cam lobes the same way you can on the older engines).
- You need to make sure your pointer is correct on the balancer wheel and hasn’t been moved (or missing like in the video).
- You need to know the correct degree offset “ATDC” from 0 for your particular engine and also that you are on the correct side of zero when you line the engine up.
- You have all the bolts loosened before trying to rotate the pump to line it up. 603/606 have the handy jack screw to rotate the pump but if you try to rotate it without the pump being freed up properly then you will break things.

I also don’t agree with rotating the engine backwards like he shows in the video. Everywhere I have read in the WIS says to never do this.

When I tried this with my 602, the chain hung up somewhere. I managed to free it up without removing the timing cover, but it goes on the list of don't try that again things.

I thought it was the IP at risk when turning the engine backwards. The engine itself shouldn’t care as long as the chain tensioner isn’t maxed. Do MB gassers have the same don’t turn backwards restriction?

Sixto
98 E320s sedan and wagon

617 589 08 21 00 Diesel Timing Tester part number
 

617 589 08 21 00
Diesel Timing Tester

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