Sam...
Baum Tools already makes a fixture like we were discussing.....but no lever...part number 617-0721...They did not have a price...looks expensive ...will call for pricing tomorrow...kevin

Brian – I immediately figured a new set of reference marks might be in order. As to why the current set are off… after close examination, I believe the two marks there now were made at different times. Remember the engine was replaced so it’s entirely plausible that these marks were made when the engine & IP were NOT mated together. If I’m wrong about this, then you could be correct that my 240D’s IP is likely to be out of time a little and that might explain the extra “vibes” at idle !

Mississippi [yellit] – I found the WebSite for Baum Tools and their graphic for p/n 617-0721… I’m attaching it. The tool looks interesting and might give us another approach for a DIY tool if there is gold plated.

Sam

I agree with this Sam. The IP pump end of my door closer (left end of my photo) just happens to mate perfectly with that flat area. It's possible that it could be clamped directly on there, provided the clamping mechanism fits in the very confined space around the front of the IP. (Too bad MB didn't oblige us with two threaded studs protruding up from that flat area- my door closer would bolt right on if that were so!)

However, it is not shown in my picture, but I was thinking more along the lines of another metal plate held on the left end with ordinary screws and nuts that would clamp it over one of the five heavy nuts that secure the lines to the pump.

I can't say whether or not the door closer would be too flimsey. The threaded part certainly isn't, and the two end brackets and threaded tube, although aluminum, seem to be very robust and not easily bent.

My biggest problem is that if this were bolted down at both ends, the tube is not free to turn because that pin that goes through it on the left has it staked to the short collar piece that goes into it. The pin has to be removed, and something like a split flat washer has to be welded over the end of the tube to hold the collar in place while the tube is turned. I'm thinking that if this were to break, it would be at that weld, unless I can get someone who can make a very strong weld with aluminum. On that point, I suppose the "split washer" would have to be aluminum too wouldn't it? Don't know for sure, but you normally can't weld steel to aluminum, can you?

Dave

Sam and fellow Dieselers...... Looks like there is still a need because Baum does not have this infernal contraption any longer....both of the tool suppliers that baum uses do not have it either...Baum said they did not sell enough of them to make it worthwhile...they were priced at $612.00 each when they were trying to sell them...The Baum guy said he does not think they even sold one??!!....
Time to get out the brazing torch and silver solder...I can at least see how the thing is supposed to look...Cheers!...kevin

I don't understand how this Forum's software performs the branching on such long threads... but if not check it out at: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/152389-setting-pump-primary-timing-milli-volt-method-5.html#post1174009
as it includes a graphic of a tool by “Baum Tools” that is apparently made specifically for “DYNAMIC” timing adjustments on IP(s). If you click on and blow up the graphic, it appears the lower part of this tool is designed to clamp onto the front of the IP where we are talking about and the upper part attaches somewhere onto the engine… and in between these 2 attachments there appears to be a heavy adjustable part that no doubt has fine threads. On our M-B(s) we could do the same thing and the engine attachment could use the valve cover bolts. I'm try to attach the small graphic file again to this post below.

Today I will have to do some measuring and picture taking and possibly do a “hybrid” drawing [ that’s a drawing done on a photo] to see if I can come up with something that I can send via e-mail attachment to anyone interested.
Mississippi [ yellit ] is going to see what Baum wants for their tool and whether its useable on our M-B(s).
Regards,
Sam

Sam...I found the price and info...see my previous post from today....kevin

Yep- I saw this picture before- a couple of weeks ago by doing a search under the "special tools" tab. This is what I'm trying to replicate with "found objects", except this "official" tool has a major drawback that you have to remove two cylinder head bolts which are in turn used to hold the tool down. I would want it to be long enough to reach the cam cover stud instead- much less risky.

Dave

Hello Dave...My thinking exactly....I do not want to go unbolting old settled in headgaskets....Did you see the price they wanted for that thing!?...$612.00.....The rocker cover stud should work...might even run another support to something else..I have some metal working equip. so I have been digging through my scrap pile for some good steel...I am going to braze up something crude but functional...not a large range of movement needed anyway...will keep everyone posted....kevin

but I agree, you should not loosen any head bolts.

Right now I'm working on what to use this design and anchor the tool to one of the valve cover bolts instead. I'll probably soon have a hybrid picture/ sketch to show you guys to see what you think. As I do this I automatically do so with the notion of using off-the-shelf hardware store parts... and minimal welding/fabrication.

Send me your E-mail address via the Forum's e-mail feature if you want receive a copy of my graphics workup. You should know that the 65K file size limit on the Forum prevents me from posting what I'm working on.

Sam

This 1st graphic is a basic block style front crossectional view of the engine/head/valve cover and IP. Don't worry about reading the small numbers here as they will be easier to read in graphic 2; part 2.

Note #1 -the ample lever that starts out as angle-iron and then changes to a better handle to grip [pipe].

Note #2 - the clamp bar/plate across the top of the IP... again there will be better detail on the next graphic.

Note #3 - please give me your thoughts as to the material you think will be needed [ thicknesses / dia etc.] .

On to graphic 2 in the next post!

Sam

oops... here is graphic #2; part 1... this silly Forum software forces you to write something here!!!
Sam

OK, this time I loaded the graphic first so I don't forget!

Hopefully this will give you clarity where it is needed.
Here I'm showing dimensions [in metric] for my 240D. I have not checked these against the 300D yet. I’m thinking that if warranted to give the mechanic more control, we can somehow fashion a long fine machine thread bolt [all thread] between the valve cover bolt and the base of the angle iron lever that comes up from the outside of the IP.

Give me your thoughts!
Sam

Nice drawing Sam....We are thinking the same......I am thinking of a 5/8 threaded rod firmly attached to the rocker cover stud.....going through a hole or U shape slot in the tool you have drawn...this rod will have a nut on each side of the fixtures vertical vane for adjustment and locking in either direction...I am making a sort of pocket or hat that will go over the squared end of the IP that the handle and screw assy can be attached to.......this thing may have to be made in pieces because there is not any room in my 300D compared to my 240D...I will take some digital pics when I start....I hope the rocker stud will have enough meat to support all this pushing and pulling....kevin

Sam, have been away and otherwise occupied so have unfortunately missed a lot.

Quite impressive to see you people moving along.
There are a lot of tests to preform to even establish if you have say an element off but from past posters your general glow plug voltages seem to have quite a spread.
Could be caused by individual glow plugs.
So one would have to move them to different cylinders to verify.
Valve settings, compression, injectors, injectors are my own biggest thought for your readings at this moment from your description but again one would verify just by moving an injector to a different cylinder.

Others will have other suggestions as well.
Only after everything else is eliminated does the pump become suspect.
And even if suspect we do not yet know how many degrees 0.1 mv indicates.
In other words still very early in the game.

At present and probably always one might say with the simple Milli volt method until we have eliminated all other causes the situation of running it down to the pump before adjusting elements will of course take priority.

One should already be prepared to shop the pump if indicated before trying to tune the sequential portion or elements if it proves to be a requirement.
I suspect at some point hopefully that will not have to be a consideration.
Again still very early in this area but perhaps not that far away.
Thanks and good information all.

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Sam, I just reread your post.
Did you get all your different glow plug readings while still hooked in parallel?
Suspect when relay off they are still wired but isolated from each other if so.
If they were still wired up I will have to think about this a bit.

Also for everyones thought I have an ideal that we can make a comparator with four, five and even six piezo connectors so we will eventually just clip them all to all of the injection lines and will be able to read out the exact spacing in degrees of each element while engine is running.

This I feel will not be rocket science either but still we have to see a lot of present though change and continue to make steady progress on the start.

Only precondition to using it I can think of would be to make sure all injectors were adjusted to the same pop pressure values.
Great tool to have available in our loaner program someday.
This is another reason it is important to move cautiously and progressively.
We want to benefit everyone that has one of these old diesels if possible.

Any electronic heads have any thoughts about above.
Think there is enough isolation to dampen interaction if any with simple sensitivity adjustments.
Package should be rugged enough to survive fairly rough handling in postal service without affecting reliability..

Also think circuit not a good ideal but some kind of liquid crystal display perhaps with different overlays for the different spacings of various amounts of cylinders or just directly readout in degrees.
Any thoughts?

I know some of you younger generation are out there.
How about a patch cable to average home computer for readout with simple software program?
Are cheap piezo crystals adequate?
Perhaps we could even use piezo tweezers elements clamped to each line?
Cheap, cheap, cheap, then would we ever be able to adjust sequential timing very accurately if required.
Should be workable I think gentlemen.

Have no knowledge of anyone doing this before and wonder why not?
As I stated Sam it's still hopefully very early in this re timing of elements in pumps.
I am not trying to start another completely different discussion running but rather trying to show we might go a very long ways yet before we are finished.
First things first I guess.

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