Dave, I guess the primary reason is to reduce vibration fatigue. Of course there probably are a few other things. They will fatigue break eventually even as thick and strong as they are. Just a shame Sam and Kevin have to struggle with them. Now if they could just learn to bend silverware with their minds as was once a popular act they would have it beat.

How about this one guys...Get a slightly longer IP line set up...straight lines at first then bend all into an upside down U....one set of ends attach to the IP and the other end to the injectors...the taller the upside down U...the easier it is to move the IP...one could go as far as a loop instead.....I do not think the extra length would much affect the MV peak because the solid nature of the fuel column in the lines...of course this could be used with any timing method.......easy to change back to stock lines and recheck peak mv/drip count/strobe light/ luminosity probe/well up/ or other....should be very close....... anyone....??....kevin

and I think his idea of having 5 specially made up "U" shapped steel fuel lines is pure genius in it's simplicity and all-but-guaranteed to work... albeit expensive for one person to do have fabricated. Maybe we can share among us and possibly donate it to the Forum as a LOANER later !

Strap Wrench Idea
Now for my part I have been wracking my brain and "Goooogling" all over the InterNet trying to find my perfect " strap wrench " that should be able to give us the torque [even heavy torque] we have been looking for... while minimizing the potential for damage to the IP's "body".
Take a look at: http://wantasub1.stores.yahoo.net/strapwrenches.html
and you will see a 3-set line of strap wrenches that have 12, 18, and 24 inch heavy duty handles and up to 44" of strap. See attached graphic for ease of visual reference.

I figure that [IF necessary] I could make the following modifications:
(a) shorten the heavy metal handle and then use a "pipe cheater" as necessary,
(b) cut off some of the extra long/wide synthetic strap, and
(c) use the cut-off strip to trim/narrow and also reinforce the strap where passes on the top of the IP.
I think I would probably get the 24" handle and extra long [44"] strap.

OK, I'm very hopefully of this imaginary baby... now will my design pass your scrutiny? Go ahead, take your best shot.. I want you to... seriously !

Sam

but I canNOT slow down the various ideas I keep getting once I accepted that Kevin [ "yellit "] has solved the heavy torque problem. I like the strap wrench idea IF we find ourselves once again facing a need to safely apply a heavy torque to the IP without damaging it.

Adjustable Slip-Nut Wrench - I saw one of these in the local Ace Hardware and I'm sure that many of you will recognize it [ see attached graphic ] and read more about it at: http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52-301-wrenches/adjustable-slip-nut-wrench-198010.aspx

IF [I repeat IF] Kevin's new set of temporary “low-spring” IP fuel lines really does as good a job as I expect they will, this light duty wrench might be adequate to torque the IP by slipping it over the squared flange just as his first torque tool was made to do… but let’s say that it “wobbles” too much so as to cause difficulty in trying to hold and "jockey" a particular mv reading from the glow plugs
[IP timing setting]! Well as I see it, you could measure the OD of the squared off IP body part with a caliper and use this to take this cheap plumber's adjustable wrench, align and permanently weld it so that it no longer “wobbles”. I would initially purposely make it a tiny bit smaller than the IP body... and then file/grind it larger until achieving a really “snug” fit. My MBZ mechanic friend would probably want to line the jaws with soft metal such as copper or aluminum [what about neoprene] so as NOT to cause too many marks or otherwise damage the stampings and s/n plates that are usually mounted on the side of the IP body flange.

Help me out here guys... take some shots at these ideas that are coming too fast for me to objectively evaluate on my own!
Sam

Attached Thumbnails

 

Yesterday I got crazy when I tried to increase the mV at #3.
BTHW: new IP, new GPs, balanced new Injectors, #3 was a bit low in compression check result.
Is this the reason for low mV in #3?
Can we compare the mV-output for the 619.95x in general for the health of our engines? I got +- 11.x mV.
I could not see the systematic in adjusting. I touched one and had changes in the others. What a trouble.
I stopped late at night when the neighbours reminded me of idling for hours!
The result was a variation of 0.3 mV. Is this o.k.?
Did you find a system for adjustment to be more efficient?

Tom

Hello Tom...What vehicle is this on?......sounds like you may have a grounding problem with the measurement...On my 240D I found the most solid mv reading if negeative meter lead attached to head...only about .1 to .2 diff on all 4 glowplugs...my readings were 6.3 mv average peaked to about 6.8 with IP rotation toward advance...also some meters read better than others....kevin

but please tell us, are you trying to adjust the IP's primary timing... and why do this while monitoring cylinder #3's injection fuel line? That's my initial take on you what you said in your POST. And what is with all these replacements [ including IP ? ].

I'm sure I speak for several others when I ask that you give us a synopsis of what is your vehicle, where you have been, and where you are trying to go !!!

Then maybe some of your questions might make more sense to us!
Sam

Yes, low compression amoung a lot of other things could make #3 cylinder low in milli volt reading. Have you done a compression check? Have you swapped injectors with one next door yet? Check and adjusted valves? Calibrated glow plugs? Or at least swapped it with a neighbour? In the vast majority of cases it will be found to be other than the injection pump sequential timing. That should never be attempted unless there is knowledge someone has tampered with it for sure. Then you have nothing to lose as the pump is otherwise is on the way to the pump shop. But to locate and identify problems in cylinders and rectify them it is a very useful tool. It may even indicate the sequential pump timing might be off but again if you are not aware of someone tampering with it you should take the pump to a shop to have it checked out. After you have eliminated all other probable causes of low milli volt reading on that cylinder of course. That is the true strength of this method. You can eliminate almost all other causes and the initial indication you might have a weak or underproducing cyllinder is indicated quite clearly. Consider it primarily a tool to indicate all is not well. Or to eliminate guessing. Plus once the problem is found and repaired the voltage will go higher on that cylinder all by itself. Beats guessing. Still not a shortcut though. And yes with very little work it will indicate the overall power balance of our engines. You have to verify the glow plugs have simular outputs or calibration if on the first check all does not seem well. Best probable method right now is to rotate all the glow plugs one at a time to the same cylinder. That allows you to see if they all indicate the same output on that cylinder. If not your glow plugs are no good for a real overall check of things. That is all glow plugs indepedently reading about the same voltage. If not it should pay to find out why they are not. With this method that is a pretty cheap thing to accomplish. But the last possibility has to be the injection pump absolutly not the first thing. Like anything relatively new it takes awhile to understand what you are doing. Helps you avoid heavy garage charges if used properly to some extent as well. That is important to a lot of us I believe. If not positive of what you are doing wait for an operation manual to be produced a little down the road. What was your original milli volt variation on number three? The 619 has hydralic lifters I imagine? Also how much lower was the compression on that number three cylinder if you know? Not trying to be hard just do not want people to make their situations worst by not really understanding. Ask questions first not after the fact unless you are certain. The members do not mind. We all want to try to help each other out....As a poster suggested give us all the inforrmation to have a look at.

Kevin and Sam, yes the longer lines for testing purposes sound sensible. The fuel pulse speed is so high that the additional length is okay in my opinion. Wonder if a guy could get two sets of lines off junkers and perhaps use 6mm compression fittings. I think they are good to 3500 lbs. Or better and safer yet silver solder a sleeve on the lines to connect them. Or perhaps there is a fitting to join the threaded couplings in the middle available. Custom made lines might be a problem to make or perhaps not. This may have to be the way.

so I apologize for I know my/our use of colloquial English might make it difficult for you… assuming English is a 2nd language for you. Are you from Eastern Europe. My Mercedes [ MBZ ] mechanic friend here in Novato, California is from Hungary and his English is a still “rough”… still very much a second language for him ! I’m his English language “clarifier” on technical matters and we drink a lot of coffee together !

I have traveled to ~25 countries in my life but really only speak/write English well [ some of the time! ]. So let me try and re-write my previous POST:

1. Is English a second language for you?
2. Please tell us what model/year/miles on engine/ transmission etcetera your car has.
3. What specifically it is that you are trying to accomplish or repair on your car or is it that you just want to contribute and participate to our diesel MBZ discussion?
4. Why was the Injection Pump [IP] replaced?

Sam Ross // Novato, California

That it!!!...I could silver solder two sawed off Injector ends together and attach 2 lines together to make one long line....or two element nipples either way....I have spare lines...we are glad to have you back Barry!...kevin

Sam:

1. Is English a second language for you?

Yes/Western GERMANY (Do I have an accent?:confuse d: )

2. Please tell us what model/year/miles on engine/ transmission etcetera your car has.

Sorry, 617.95x engine of course, in a 300 SD of 82

3. What specifically it is that you are trying to accomplish or repair on your car or is it that you just want to contribute and participate to our diesel MBZ discussion?

I am not new to Diesels esp. MBz. I bought this California car more or less directly from a guy in Nevada two years ago. I participate to our forum quite often, thanks for this.

4. Why was the Injection Pump [IP] replaced?

I had the chance to get a brand new IP for little money while the existing one caused rough idling and poor power.
And I want to have a perfect car.


For this reason I:

Adjusted valves
Replaced nozzles (new 259 instead of the original 240) and adjusted/balanced injectors
All GPs new
Compression check showed #3 approx. 25 bar all others 27/28 bar

What I wanted to say is that the #3 mV reading seams to correspond with the difference in compression. So far, so good.
For this reason I tried to increase the mVs on #3 but as someone already wrote some others changed too. Why do the others change and where is the trick to win earlier?
As an intermediate result (before the neighbour came) I had approx 11 mV with a max. difference of 0.3 mV. My VM did not jump or hunt.

Before setting the IP with the mV in detail (did it with the drop method some weeks ago), I want to see the same mV reading on each plug.

It seams to me that the pump was perfect on the bench but needs some adaptation to my engine. But playing with the single elements is time and brain intensive fun.

Kevin, be careful when soldering the lines. Covering the connection area with a flexible hose (PE, PA or PVC) could protect you from the spray in case of leaking.

Sorry again for my bad English.

Tom
(from WestCoast Germany )

Thanks for the leak warning Tom...I will wrap the soldered line and wear safety goggles & gloves....Greetings from Mississippi USA....Are you reading the glowplugs unconnected from the relay ? Have you tried another glowplug in #3 ?... My friend here owns a diesel injection shop..he says after the elements are set it is best to leave them where they were set at the factory....You might try adjusting the valves again on #3...How are you reading the glow plugs ? what kind of meter ? Your English is much better than my German.....kevin

Tomnik, I was the other fellow who messed with the fuel elements and had a hard to time adjusting them to get them to match each other, because as you said....as you adjust one, it changes the readings on the others. I got mine all within .3-.5 mV from each other, but I still feel my injection could be better. I am going to wait untill I replace my injectors, ream my glowplug holes (all of the gp's were replaced at the same time less than 4 months ago, but the holes werent reamed), add my new rack dampener pin (dont know if this will do anything) and adjust my valves. I have been meaning to do this for quite some time, but have not been able to do so because of time and money (about to move).

After one full tank since adjusting my fuel elements I have already gotten 2.3 more miles per gallon. This to me seems substantial, especially considering that my mV readings were still more variable than they probably should be. But, still even with that increase I am only getting 22.8 miles per gallon (mixed highway/city), so I obviously have a ways to go. I will examine several fillups and do those repair/maintenance issues before I make any further assesments or adjustments.

__________________
1983 300SD White with Grey interior

Thanks Kevin,
I read the glowplugs unplugged in the socket to the relay. Cylinder # are marked in the socket easy to jump from cylinder to cylinder.
I know #3 is little lower in compression so my input to the forum might be the fact that I read the compression difference in the mV of #3.
Anyway with an equal mV adjustment I will have the optimum in individual cylinder combustion, right? I am nearly sure that the low mV of #3 is a result of lower compression there.
Of course it is best to keep the fingers off of a shop adjusted pump, for 99.9% of their customers. But after the newest mV information I think we can fine tune the adaptation to our engines.
If my engine has no defect at the moment but differences in mV reading of each glowplug with a bench adjusted pump (means in theory no differences in individual output, how could they know about differences in my engine due to wear) then top adjustment can only result from adapting the pump’s setting to the different condition of each cylinder.
The meter is an expensive one, digital. I don’t have it here so I can not give you more details at the moment.

Tom