$400 Find, Seized while using the starter? (see pg 3) - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bgkast · #31 07-23-2006, 08:21 PM

The starter seemed to turn the engine over as quickly as my other 240D. I have charged the battery for a few hours, but now even the starter can not turn the engine. Last time it was turning over I was trying to start it and it was doing the usual cough and shake. I then released the starter and when I tried it again the starter would not turn it over.

My theories are:

1) the cam chain skipped another tooth and now the valves and pistons are interfering

2) the starter gear is stuck and will not allow the engine to turn.

I want to get the engine free and check to make sure the chain did not skip a tooth or two before I try anything else. Is it possible for it to skip during normal operation? I don't think the engine was turned counter clockwise.
Should removing the Glow plugs should eliminate all compression, or do I need to pull the injectors? Is there a special injector socket? Thank you all. –Bryan

bgkast · #32 07-23-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stcbenz83

sorry my old post made no sense, i ment how are you gonna tow start it? with another car? or pushing it down the road?>??? agian just curious

I was going to pull it with another car. I need to figure out why the engine is stuck now though.

miner · #33 07-23-2006, 10:02 PM

Removing the glow plugs will eliminate all compression.

If you are way off on cam timing so that you cant even turn it manually then I don't know how you are going to be able to actually check the timing. One way, i suppose, would be to tighten all the valves A LOT. I mean tighten the adjustment nuts so that the cams hardly even touch the valves. That would let you check and hopefully adjust the timing chain.

I still think you have a problem with fuel delivery. You could have a major blockage in the supply line (except you said the hand pump didn't really even work from a bottle). Or, it sounds weird, but you could have a major blockage in the return line. Or your pirimer pump could be broken, not just the hand pump, the whole lift pump. To eliminate the lift pump totally, try what I said about supplying the IP from a bucket with a spigot (so you can get a little fuel pressure at the IP -- not sure if that is neccessary, though, a bottle might be just as good). Just use filtered fuel when you do this. Of course you have to be able to turn it over to do that.

This is interesting (to me, at least, though probebly not to you). Good luck

.

bgkast · #34 07-24-2006, 12:18 AM

I pulled the injectors now too. It still wont turn. The lobe of the #4 intake valve is opening the valve, so there is a chance that it is binding on that valve.

Knowing that I don't have time to pull the head off right now, how would you recommend I proceed? Can anybody else think of something that would be binding the engine? (it is not in gear, I tried that

) What is the likely hood that the chain could have skipped a tooth while driving, and another one while cranking?

I find it interesting too. Even if the engine is toast the body is worth what I paid for it. The only rust is under the battery, and it seems to have been fixed already. Thanks for all the help. –Bryan

miner · #35 07-24-2006, 12:29 AM

You have all the injectors off, why not screw down all the valves so they are totally closed, or at least that one you noticed was touching the cam lobe, and see if that frees it up enough to turn it with a wrench. If not, I think this is what they mean when they say an engine has "seized". Hope not though.

#36 07-24-2006, 12:32 AM

While you were cranking, did the oil gauge show any pressure?

miner · #37 07-24-2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

Just got a second '79 340D with 300K on the clock.

Ok, that is the problem, then. You are talking about a 340D. That is a totally different car.

(sorry. That was completely unneccessary and not helpful at all, was it?

)

bgkast · #38 07-24-2006, 12:49 AM

340Ds are very rare!

I don't remember if it showed any oil pressure. My other 240 does not register until it has been running for a second or two. The oil does seem a bit thin though.

bgkast · #39 07-24-2006, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miner

You have all the injectors off, why not screw down all the valves so they are totally closed, or at least that one you noticed was touching the cam lobe, and see if that frees it up enough to turn it with a wrench. If not, I think this is what they mean when they say an engine has "seized". Hope not though.

How would I screw down the valves, the adjustment nuts? Do they have enough adjustment to close the valve if the cam cam lobe is open all of the way? I don't see how it could seize by just cranking.

bgkast · #40 07-24-2006, 02:04 AM

I loosened the adjustment nuts on the valve that was open and then tried to turn the cam back and forth very gently using the nut on the sprocket. The cam is not binding. I also checked all of the belt driven peripherals and thy are free as well. This leaves the crank, pistons and IP to be binding. I still cant believe that cranking could seize the engine. The engine has oil in it. What the heck?

I did wash it today though. Looks like a million bucks....well maybe a few thousand...but definitely more than $400.

bgkast · #41 07-24-2006, 12:50 PM

Here is the abridged version of what is going on now.

Yesterday I was cranking it with the starter and it was sputtering, but would not start. I released the key from the start position, and when I tried the starter again the engine spun slowly, then stopped, acting like the battery was dead. I later discovered that I could not turn the engine over even using a breaker bar on the crank nut.

I have removed the glow plugs and injectors and checked the belt driven accessories with no luck. I have also checked to make sure the valve train is free by gently rocking it using a wrench on the nut at the cam sprocket. The car has oil in it, but it seems a bit thinner than it should be. I did not notice if the engine was building oil pressure when I was cranking it.

I have a hard time believing that I could have seized the engine, but what else could it be? Thank you. –Bryan

whunter · #42 07-24-2006, 01:07 PM

You are better off sticking with this one.

If the title needs to change, go to your first post, click edit in the right lower corner, click "Go Advanced", change your title, click Save Changes...

bgkast · #43 07-24-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

You are better off sticking with this one.

If the title needs to change, go to your first post, click edit in the right lower corner, click "Go Advanced", change your title, click Save Changes...

Fixed

Endust · #44 07-24-2006, 01:41 PM

I agree that siezing from the starter turning is hard to believe. Im not sure if you have tried all this stuff yet, but here is what I would do in order:

1) Pull starter and try to hand turn it. Makes sense to me the starter that was spinning at the time of failure is most likey to blame.

2) Disconnect all the belt driven accesories and try it.

3) Loosen all the valves as far as you can. See if that lets you turn the engine a bit further than before. If so, then your thought about cam timing being a problem is true. Best way to fix would be to pull the tensioner, remove the front sprocket and re cam time using the cam tower notch. Not exact, but would get your motor spinning again sp you could time it correctly.

4) Pull IP and try it. Since fuel was an issue and it had all those bubba springs on it there could be an internal issue with the IP.

Good Luck!