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#16
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Quote:
Some tutorials advise 1 drip every 20 secs... If you are getting one drip every 15, for instance, you are supposed to keep adjusting the IP until you get it right... 1 drip every 20 secs! Others say 1 drip/sec, and also ask for strict adherence to this rate. How in hell can these two different rates be interchangeable in order to get to the same end result? That is precisely my question...
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#17
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Drips
I appreciate the concern about conflicting info.....The difference between the two counts seems to be what source the info is coming from...(MB) (Bosch) (Haynes) (Bently) (Chilton)
I have noticed that some manuals for the older pumps have different counts from the newer ones... Bosch may have a slightly different count from Mercedes for the same pump....I bet there have been some good arguments in the Fatherland over this topic with much cussing and beer drinking.... One drip every 20 seconds would place the timing a tad earlier than the one drop every 1 second... I go with the earlier timing to compensate for wear of components....plus it seemed to have more power on the more advanced side of timing range on my older engines...
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1978 Yellow 300D (The Mustard Toad) 1980 Blue 240D (The Iron Toad) 1989 Grey Mitsu.4WD Mighty Max Pickup (Needs a Diesel transplant bad) (Open the pod bay doors HAL) |
#18
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Quote:
Well, I have asked my question. This exchange between the two of us, with me saying over and over the same thing and you doing the same, is not conducive to much... I don't think you understood my question well... which again is a conceptual one about the validity of method and not about how to do it in the best way possible... So, if someone understands what I am asking about and has an answer to that, I'm all ears...
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#19
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Stupid question, why hasn't anyone used an electrical pump instead of the primer pump? You would get a steady flow...
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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg 1995 E420 Schwarz 1995 E300 Weiss #1987 300D Sturmmachine #1991 300D Nearly Perfect #1994 E320 Cabriolet #1995 E320 Touring #1985 300D Sedan OBK #42 |
#20
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Fill up the fuel tank, elevate the rear end; gravity will provide all the pressure you need. No pump required.
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#21
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Drips
I forgot to ask what sources you are using that describe the two methods...
I have another manual that states one drop should follow another every 10-15 seconds...so this is a third method for us to throw into the mix....as follows... One drop every second One drop every 10 to 15 seconds One drop every 20 seconds The same end result will not be achieved by the above methods.... The difference in timing will be there but very small You are correct in saying that these values are not the same... The same Timing values are not acheived by the above three methods... It would be interesting to see how much difference in dynamic numbers would be between the three methods....If I ever get the timing equipment I will get values for all 3 methods ... I find the same type of difference in manuals describing valve clearance numbers...all a little different but all very close.... I love this forum...it keeps my simple little brain fully engaged... I hope some other forum members can jump in here to help us on our search for truth and understanding of this mystery....Barry???...Brian..??? We need help here...??!!
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1978 Yellow 300D (The Mustard Toad) 1980 Blue 240D (The Iron Toad) 1989 Grey Mitsu.4WD Mighty Max Pickup (Needs a Diesel transplant bad) (Open the pod bay doors HAL) |
#22
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Quote:
Quote:
One drop every second One drop every 3 seconds One drop every 10 to 15 seconds One drop every 20 seconds Quote:
Quote:
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#23
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Thank you.
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
#24
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Quote:
Scott
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Scott 1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000) 1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold) 1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold) 1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!) 1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold) 1995 Ducati 900SS (sold) 1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold) 1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.) 1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold) 1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold) |
#25
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Page 07.1.8-115/3 of the Mercedes-Benz OM617.95 factory service manual.
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#26
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BTW, no one is coming forward with something to say regarding what was discussed about the four drip tube methods... Logic says that either one of those methods is right and all the other ones are wrong (which one, though?), OR none of them is worth s*it...
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#27
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But my point, which I have expounded earlier, is that it cannot be "more precise," because each of those methods mentioned in this thread negates all the other ones in principle... one has to be necessarily right, if at all, and the others wrong... the question is, which one?
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#28
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I'd bet they will all work perfectly well. The difference between 1 drop per second and 1 drop per 20 seconds probably works out to less than 1* difference in actual injection timing.
IMHO, it's personal preference. Doing it one way or the other won't hurt the engine unless you are trying to run 28*+ of timing advance. |
#29
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Quote:
Let me demonstrate in the simplest way possible... Let's say that I adopt the 1-drop/sec method. I set the balancer at 24 degrees (or 26, or whatever you like) and then get the dripping going... Gosh, I'm getting 1 drop every 3 seconds... Shoot! Now I have to loosen up the IP and start moving it around... But wait a minute, there's another method available that I could have opted for, the one of the 1-drop/3-secs that makes it right... Wow! By adopting that method I can now spare myself that PITA adjustment procedure with the IP... Or, conversely, say I had adopted the 1-drop/20-secs method... only to find out that I was getting 1 in 15... But, now by switching to and adopting the one that says 1 drop every 15 to 20 secs is just fine, I have to do nothing... the timing is right... the timing is perfect... And so forth and so on.... Do you see how ridiculous the whole thing is... it does not make any sense at all... Why then not just say from 1 drop/sec to 1 drop per 20 secs is just fine. But how do we know, then, that 2 drops/sec wouldn't be just as fine? And so forth and so on... The possibilities are endless... Now, do you see exactly what I mean? Wait, wait... You know what? I've just invented a new method... It is called "the Rino method of setting the IP timing via the drip tube..." it is based on 1 drop every 30 seconds... It is the most precise method of them all... Let me repeat that I agree with what you said... within the range you mentioned everything probably works... But conceptually speaking? The coexistence of these different methods for doing it, all of which in principle negate one another, is all a f*cking joke...
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1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior. |
#30
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I'd bet money that anyone with a timing chain more than a year or two old will NOT get 1 drop per 1-30seconds if they checked it right now.
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