Can ABS be added to a non-ABS 300D? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 04-16-2007, 01:48 AM

Probably because that Cavalier has drums on the back.

Ara T. · #17 04-16-2007, 04:59 AM

Sounds like an issue of tires, not drum brakes to me.

Monomer · #18 04-16-2007, 05:37 AM

M 124 brakes just fine...

the w126 (non abs) didn't see any winter driving so, I dunno.

pawoSD · #19 04-16-2007, 09:20 AM

I just think they're too light....it has gooyear conquest tires...those things cost about $85 apiece!

It does have rear drum brakes though, that probably makes a difference.

thorsen · #20 04-16-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

My uncle's chevy cavalier has ABS, and yet my SD can stop faster, on any surface...road...rain....snow....

I remember being in it when the street was covered in snow, he applied the brakes and it went "CHUNK CHUNK CHUNK CHUNK".....as we slid on past the driveway...

Didn't help at all. My SD stops much better in similar conditions.

That is a ridiculous comparison. If the ABS is activated, it is because the tires have lost grip, not because an ABS system is somehow inherently less effective.

If you want to do a comparison, put the same tires with the same mileage on both cars and try a side-by-side test. And you might want to compare two cars of the same type: an SD and an economy car do not compare well together.

Matt L · #21 04-16-2007, 10:28 AM

ABS is known to know work as well in loose snow, since piling snow in front of the locked wheels does slow you down pretty fast. But with ABS, you can still steer.

vstech · #22 04-16-2007, 10:43 AM

actually, installing abs is not that hard, it is installing FACTORY abs that is difficult. because the factory has all kinds of sensors and redundancy systems built in. simple abs works well, it's the modified abs to cater to drivers pickiness that makes abs complicated. hot rod mag did an article on this very subject installing it in a 60's muscle car, and had no issues.
John

vstech · #23 04-16-2007, 10:54 AM

and yeah, comparing a 2000 lb car to a 3500lb car stopping capabilities is kinda coo coo... I mean tire size and weight and brake systems play a huge part in braking capabilities. I am sure the ABS improves the stopping ability of that poor caviler but I mean really, short of an anchor, what would get it to stop in snow?
John

Icefire · #24 04-16-2007, 11:13 AM

I know, just what we need another opinion in this thread, but I much prefer my 85 300 SD abs system to the non abs of the earlier models, its really only important in the winter, as everyone can threshold brake in the summer but it takes a trained driver to be able to threshold brake (stop more effectivly than abs) in ice and snow conditions.

I have had 2 cars (85's) with the abs system and I can say the mercedes system is robust, and much better than the ford system of the late 80's and mitsubishi systems of the early 90's.

I know of someone attempting to put factory abs into his car, hopefully it will work out.

If your a good driver in mostly snow and ice free condition then your right abs is unecessary, however I think it is very usefull, particularly if my girlfriend or mother were ever to drive my car.

babymog · #25 04-16-2007, 11:43 AM

The best ABS IMO is the one on my old quattro: It had an on/off switch on the dash and also turned off when the differentials were locked.

The cavalier is IMO a poor comparison, many of the Japanese and American cars use the ABS to balance the brakes instead of creating a balanced braking system with ABS as Mercedes did.

All of my Mercedes have had ABS, never a problem (knocking on Zebrano wood). The ABS systems that the Germans use are typically a better system also: better sensors, higher frequency pump/valves = better control. Many of the US ABS systems I've had aren't good enough to allow you to steer during ABS activation and the German-car installed ones do.

Installing would be difficult as has been stated, because the factory system is tied into other systems. Too bad really. ABS is extremely useful in situations where not all wheels have the same traction. Ex: when the two curbside wheels get on gravel and the driverside wheels are on dry pavement. The driverside wheels in this situation are able to use the full grip of the pavement and the curbside compensates for the loose gravel. Same in ice, snow, wet, etc. Also allows for a fast stab at the brakes in a panic situation. A properly designed, adjusted, and operated braking system has been proven to have shorter stopping distances without ABS with perfectly modulated (by driver) braking than ABS (SAE testing), but that is an ideal situation that seldom exists. Same thing on dirt or snow, as mentioned previously the pile ahead of the tire helps deceleration.

If you don't like it, you can do what we (Land Rover owners) do off-road, pull the fuse.

For on-road operation, I'll keep my ABS.

tobybul · #26 04-16-2007, 11:48 AM

I think abs has its merits. they are there for a reason like when a tire looses grip. didn't we use to pump the brake pedal just to make the tires bite and that even didn't do the job! hence, the abs! I've never had any abs problems with any of my cars with abs.

I'm sure having it has saved me from a few fender-benders during icy/snowy/rainy conditions.

I figured its probably not feasible to add abs to a non-abs vehicle without a whole lot of work and fabrication. Thats probably why there is no aftermarket kit available for it. The liability would be an issue.

dmorrison · #27 04-16-2007, 12:36 PM

I prefer ALL my cars to have ABS. It is a safety system thats when needed is VERY valuable. The only problem I have had in any of the cars ABS system is the front sensor wires will crack and have a short over 20-30 years of flexing. Both the SDL and the SL had to have the front wires replaced. Otherwise servicing, bleeding and operating the system is easy enough. And never required any service other than normal service ( fluids) and the front wires.

Yes a W123 ABS system can be installed in a US W123. It has to come from a European donor car that has it installed. As pointed out a lot has to be changed. Wheel hubs, Fluid lines, wire sensors, computers, wiring for the computer, wire harness from the computer to the wheels. etc. etc. Worth it??? If you really want it, yes. If not than no.

Now for the merits of ABS.
The ability of a car to stop is based on one thing only. The tire tread and the road surface. ( unless you have thrust reverser's, an anchor or a parachute to throw out). The amount of force that the brake system can apply before locking up is again determined by the tire tread and the road surface it is on. Not the pedal force or booster assistance.
Tire tread. Its shape, design and amount of wear determine this. The road surface is the other factor. Type of material. Concrete, asphalt, dirt, gravel covered hard surface, snow covered surface and the one that will produce the most ABS cycle is a water covered surface with oil droppings covering it. Worse case, an ice covered surface with water on top of the ice. Why are you driving in this?????? For some reason Texans think they can drive in this.

Two of the most common ABS incidents are 1, A poor driver who is going to fast for conditions and applies the brakes too late and the ABS cycles due to the driver applying more brake pressure than the tire/road surface combination can handle.
2. Driving on a surface where it has just started to rain after a long period of no rain. The oil on the road surface beads up due to the water and causes a slick surface that the tire/surface setup can't handle with normal braking. So the ABS cycles.

Bottom line; DRIVING TO FAST FOR THE ROAD CONDITIONS.

pawoSD

Your uncles car went "clunk-clunk-clunk" because he was DRIVING TO FAST for the conditions based on the tire/surface condition he was in. Each car/tire tread/road surface/driver combination is different.

pawoSD and 1985 300SD Sady

Please don't take this personally, but at 17 and 20 years old your driving experience is not very long. Over time you will learn that there are idiots out there driving (not you, as far as I know

) and that you need all the help you can get not to get killed by one of these idiots. ABS is the best system on the car you have when it comes to stopping. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THE TOOL. The skill must be learned. The best tool you have is your brain, drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions. Which is usually slower than what 90% of the drivers are going on the road.

ABS is a very good tool for us. It is SO important that none of the aircraft at American Airlines can not be dispatched ( leave the gate ) with the ABS inoperative. Period. And if you lose the system en route. It is best to declare an emergency prior to landing to have the fire department waiting because you will more than likely blow a tire on landing. And if you do it could lead to aircraft damage and a possible fire.

So don't disregard ABS. It is a very reliable system and when you need it, it's there. Like your seatbelt, you won't have time to put it on when you need it.

OK, enough lecturing

Dave

http://www.intellichoice.com/carBuying101/AntiLockBrakes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

http://www.nsc.org/library/facts/abs.htm

rrgrassi · #28 04-16-2007, 12:43 PM

All ABS does is prevent brake lock skidding.

vstech · #29 04-16-2007, 12:44 PM

yeah, anybody ever seen the braking systems on a B-52? WOW WOW WOW!!! the tires are something like 6' tall, and 3 foot wide. there are MASSIVE calipers all around the rotors, yes PLURAL rotors per wheel. IIRC the abs system on those wheels are mechanical, not computerized. (it was mid 80's when my dad showed me the thing so pardon my fuzzyness) seeing a set of tires that size blow on a heavy landing is something!
John

#30 04-16-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmorrison

So don't disregard ABS. It is a very reliable system and when you need it, it's there. Like your seatbelt, you won't have time to put it on when you need it.

I'm glad it works for you, but one of the many reasons that I own pre-85 cars and motorcycles is the lack of ABS, air bags, etc. This stuff may have a legitimate function, but not on my cars.