Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-26-2007, 10:55 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIESL View Post
But my guess is that ip and crank are still in sync, so the only thing left is cam causing the timing issue.
Unless the camshaft/chain were "randomly" installed, resetting the IP should solve the problem. The crank and camshaft are back in sync again at "180* off." It's just the injection timing that's off.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-26-2007, 11:06 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Unless the camshaft/chain were "randomly" installed, resetting the IP should solve the problem. The crank and camshaft are back in sync again at "180* off." It's just the injection timing that's off.
If he had the head removed and reinstalled the camshaft 180 degrees from the desired location, the IP and crankshaft are correct but the camshaft is not.

Since he didn't mention removal of the IP during this "event", it's probably not a wise idea to remove and reinstall the IP..........although the result would be functionally the same.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 08-26-2007 at 11:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-26-2007, 12:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
You have three variables. I would bet that two of them--the crank and the ip--have not "skipped" teeth, and therefor, are in sync. Then the only other variable is the cam. One thing I've assumed is that the chain and the gear were not painted with a mark, otherwise, just line everything back up and you're good to go. But assuming we don't have those marks, I would just work on the cam sprocket timing. Also, I don't understand how you can correct 180 camshaft timing with removing the ip. Seems like you should just work on the thing that's broke. JMHO.
__________________

1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-26-2007, 12:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIESL View Post
Also, I don't understand how you can correct 180 camshaft timing with removing the ip.
As you already explained. the crankshaft rotates at twice the rate of the camshaft. So they get back in sync every 360 degrees of crank rotation (or 180 degrees of camshaft rotation.)

So, if the camshaft remains fixed and the crankshaft rotates 360 degrees, the crank/cam relationship is unchanged. You have just moved ahead two cycles in the four cycle process. So you just need to move the IP ahead two strokes by rotating it 180 degrees to "catch up."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-27-2007, 12:17 PM
AHH,What's up Doc????
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,212
Getting the IP timing off and the valve timing off is not as hard as you think! First rotate the engine by hand until you see the crankcase "0" mark line up with the timing pointer with No.1 piston fully up. Thgen with the valve cover removed, check to see if the dimple in the camshaft gear is lined up with the edge of the steel on the drivers side of the head. Once you get there, remove the injection pump and make sure the timing marks face each other! You should be looking upwards toward the 10 or 11 O'clock position. Re-install the IP and do the drip test from there. Hope this helps. You would be wise to have a service manual with pictures!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-27-2007, 12:33 PM
Stevo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NW WA
Posts: 6,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightrider966 View Post
Getting the IP timing off and the valve timing off is not as hard as you think! First rotate the engine by hand until you see the crankcase "0" mark line up with the timing pointer with No.1 piston fully up. Thgen with the valve cover removed, check to see if the dimple in the camshaft gear is lined up with the edge of the steel on the drivers side of the head. Once you get there, remove the injection pump and make sure the timing marks face each other! You should be looking upwards toward the 10 or 11 O'clock position. Re-install the IP and do the drip test from there. Hope this helps. You would be wise to have a service manual with pictures!
As I remember you need too install the IP at the 24 degree BTDC mark on the crank balancer not TDC
__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:48 PM
symbolic95's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Orlando,Fl
Posts: 87
Lightbulb

Ok just got back from the garage .... cam and crankshaft are fine , i just checked, anyway its easier then ip removal...what i did is i got mark to 0 TDC compression stroke-cams were facing up,so i removed the chain and tried to rotate camshaft 180 degrees..a a a ...cam vent half a way - exhaust valve was hitting piston ...so i guess i installed it right the first time ...
It's time for a pump to come off...but oil filter housing has to come off first...those 5 bolts---......so little room to work...
I'm on my way to SEARS now to buy 6 mm longest wrench ....one of the bolts ,thats in the middle,unaccessible ,i already cut off 1cm of Allen 6mm to fit smallest ratchet but even that didn't help ,i'll use this cut off for the wrench ,hope i'll succeed....
No one has answered my Question so far , about IP removal---will i have to lock it?, Or just set at 24 BTDC take OH off and pull out ip-realign marks and put it back ?
Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by symbolic95 View Post
No one has answered my Question so far , about IP removal---will i have to lock it?,
No. What would be the point in locking it in the wrong place?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:11 PM
symbolic95's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Orlando,Fl
Posts: 87
Well i asked because on CD i have two variants one removing /installing ip,second installing IP with locking nut --- with steps set at -15 atdc ,2nd step put mark 4th tooth to the right,after mark ....
Thats why im asking.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,971
Just set the crank to 24 BTDC, line up the IP notch with the mark and reinstall the IP. (Assuming that you don't have one of the mismarked IP's.) Then drip time, before reinstalling the oil filter housing.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-27-2007, 09:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by symbolic95 View Post
Ok just got back from the garage .... cam and crankshaft are fine....
I guess if you're bent on removing the ip, then go ahead and do it. If cam and crank are "fine" I don't see how you don't know ip is fine as well. Why not at least take the little springs and stuff out of the #1 shot in the ip and rotate the motor and see when it squirts or wells up. If it squirts at something like 34deg, that means it'll drip at somewhere near 24deg. Then just loosen it up and time it instead of pulling the whole mess off. I thought for sure my chain had skipped teeth, especially since the ip seems to "lope" on the chain--you rotate the motor and it goes and goes and then all of a sudden the ip "pulls" on the chain for about a 1/4 crank. I guess I'm writing this mostly for the benefit of others who may not be so inclined to pull the ip if not totally necessary. But then again, if pulling more things off the motor doesn't bother you, then by all means....
__________________

1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-27-2007, 10:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIESL View Post
I guess if you're bent on removing the ip, then go ahead and do it. If cam and crank are "fine" I don't see how you don't know ip is fine as well.
Since you are so bent on believing every thing is "fine," please share your explanation as to why the engine runs so poorly.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Since you are so bent on believing every thing is "fine," please share your explanation as to why the engine runs so poorly.
I meant "fine" as in ip and crank are fine. I don't think "everything" is fine--he's the one that said fine on the cam and crank, but I think the cam is the problem. Here's my bottom line and then I promise I'll sit back and eagerly await reading about the conclusion of this project. I honestly believe that it is nearly impossible to skip teeth on crank or ip. Are you certain that you've identified the correct position of the cam lobes on the compression stroke at TDC? Up and down are pretty general terms. IIRC, the first lobe had to point in the general direction of 90deg toward driver's side. Second lobe up? Can't recall, but I'd search and locate a photo.

I contend that the chain did not skip any teeth on the pump or the crank and you're chasing a ghost by removing the ip. All imho. Good night and good luck.
__________________

1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-27-2007, 11:23 PM
symbolic95's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Orlando,Fl
Posts: 87
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIESL View Post
I guess if you're bent on removing the ip, then go ahead and do it. If cam and crank are "fine" I don't see how you don't know ip is fine as well. Why not at least take the little springs and stuff out of the #1 shot in the ip and rotate the motor and see when it squirts or wells up. If it squirts at something like 34deg, that means it'll drip at somewhere near 24deg. Then just loosen it up and time it instead of pulling the whole mess off. I thought for sure my chain had skipped teeth, especially since the ip seems to "lope" on the chain--you rotate the motor and it goes and goes and then all of a sudden the ip "pulls" on the chain for about a 1/4 crank. I guess I'm writing this mostly for the benefit of others who may not be so inclined to pull the ip if not totally necessary. But then again, if pulling more things off the motor doesn't bother you, then by all means....
Well i wrote before that in compression stroke fuel doesn't come out at all , it does when cam lobes are down - 180 degrees off (believe me i would not mind just to turn IP around ),this thing came unexpected , i have tons of work to do on s320 ,but cant because w126 has to come out first from garage.
thanks for your time
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page