|
|
|
#46
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
As it is our 97 Caravan is coming on 180K miles and I'll be filling it with +4 after 180K miles of +3. As I take gsxr's point, I hate to change formulations this late in the game. Back to MBs, I filled the 87 300D with M1 MVF and didn't notice the same improvement as with filling the 87 SDL and 93 SD with the old M1 ATF for the first time. Could be the 300D was in less need of a fluid change :/ Sixto 87 300D |
#47
|
||||
|
||||
Why is everyone going the uber expensive Amsoil route when you can trod on down to your local NAPA and pick up FULL SYNTHETIC Dexron VI from Valvoline. Its certified for all Dexron applications, and is a full synthetic, and get this, only $4.89 a qt!!! We bought 24 quarts during their 25% off everything sale, so we ended up getting it for less than $4 a bottle! And had enough to do all 3 MB's! Also, it works great. The trannys in the two cars that are running it (my dad's 300SD and the 300D) are shifting awesome. The 300SD was a Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF to Valvoline switch, and it made it a little quieter and shifts are excellent. The 300D was a dino dexron to Valvoline switch, and it improved greatly. Shifts are firm and smooth now.
My car is not due till Spring for a tranny fluid change, but I have all the fluid I need for it already. I am currently running on the old M1 Synthetic and have a spare bottle as well in case I need to top off. (which I don't, I can go all year and not lose a drop! ) Anyways, why would you spend so much $$$$ on Amsoil fluids, and the hassle of obtaining it, when for $4.89/qt you can get full synthetic Dexron VI? We change ours all yearly, so its much much much more cost effective to do the Valvoline, and likely better for the trannies than going longer on a more expensive fluid. (which may not be any better)
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#48
|
||||
|
||||
Well, personally, it's because Valvoline's "fully synthetic" engine oil is, well, not fully synthetic. It's a Group III base stock, which is hydrocracked dino oil. Mobil even sued a few mfr's back when this process was new to the market (late 80's? Early 90's?), under the premise that it was false advertising to call it synthetic, since it wasn't truly synthetic. Mobil lost, which opened up the market to lots of alleged "synthetic" oils that aren't, like Valvoline, Penzoil, Rotella Syn, Castrol SynTec, and others. True synthetics are Group IV/V base stocks, like Mobil-1, Amsoil, and RedLine.
To answer your question, I don't trust that Valvoline's ATF is a Group IV/V base stock, especially at that price point. What's the difference, you ask? Basically, the cheaper Group III stuff performs like synthetic at twice the price of dino, but doesn't last any longer than dino fluid before breaking down. The 'good' stuff retains its properties far longer and can be used for extended drain intervals (and/or service intervals), which would be a bad idea for Group III oils. The same applies to both engine oil and ATF. |
#49
|
||||
|
||||
Thats what my teacher was telling me at school today. He was saying the Valvoline isnt a full synthetic like it claims its a group 3 thats no better then dino. Which is why he was mobil 1 for the longest time. Now he is amsoil but recommends the valvoline stuff for any japanese econobox
__________________
Current: 05 E320 CDI 07 GL320 CDI 08 Sprinter 05 Dodge Cummins 01 Dodge Cummins Previous 2004 E55 AMG 2002 C32 AMG (#2) 1995 E300 1978 300D 1987 300D 2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[ 1981 300SD 1983 300SD 1987 300SDL 2002 Jetta TDI 1996 S420 1995 S500 1993 190E 2.6 1992 190E 2.3 1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
Hmm....I will look into this and find out what oil group the Valvoline is. The breakdown issue isn't an issue, because we only run the fluid for a year. So....usually 20k or less. Since my dad splits his driving between his two cars (and actually drives the 300D more now) it will probably only be 8-9k per car per year.
I drive about 16-18k.....a lot is freeway though. The fluid seems to perform better than the Mobil Stuff though. Shifts are better, firmer...etc.
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#51
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Current: 05 E320 CDI 07 GL320 CDI 08 Sprinter 05 Dodge Cummins 01 Dodge Cummins Previous 2004 E55 AMG 2002 C32 AMG (#2) 1995 E300 1978 300D 1987 300D 2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[ 1981 300SD 1983 300SD 1987 300SDL 2002 Jetta TDI 1996 S420 1995 S500 1993 190E 2.6 1992 190E 2.3 1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed |
#52
|
||||
|
||||
In reading around out on the webscape, I have come to the conclusion that running a "fake synthetic" like the Valvoline and replacing it more often (every year) will do more good to the tranny than running an expensive fluid like Amsoil for a lot longer. From what I read even the "dino" ATF's are pretty good now and most have synthetic in them as it is to meet the cold-flow viscosity requirements. The Valvoline Dexron VI stuff is very watery when you pour it in, so I bet it flows quite well when cold. Perhaps I'll stick one of my quarts in the freezer and find out....
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#53
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
That being said, for those of us who want to make Finnish power levels synthetic is probably the only thing that can withstand the abuse
__________________
John Robbins '05 E320 CDI - 240k '87 300TD - 318k |
#54
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
10 years ago I used to pay the dealer to do the trans fluid & filter change (and they use dino fluid). Near the end of the 30k interval, the 722.3 trans was shifting rather harshly, enough that I was wondering what was wrong with it. After the fluid & filter change, it felt like a new transmission... barely even felt the shifts. I don't see that effect with full synthetic fluid. The Group III stuff may provide similar results through 30kmi. Regardless, I don't like supporting companies that, IMO, have misleading marketing practices (i.e., labeling Group III oils "full synthetic"). |
#55
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I agree, but $4 extra per quart makes holding up to that ideal a little challenging!
__________________
John Robbins '05 E320 CDI - 240k '87 300TD - 318k |
#56
|
||||
|
||||
I've used the mobil 1 ATF for many years, it has a higher thermal transmissivity which made it better for high-performance uses. Also, my ZF automatic triples the drain/change interval for some synthetics (not including Mobil 1, only double for Mobil 1), in which I use the Castrol manufactured "transynd" sold by allison.
And yes, the transmission temperature runs noticably lower on the gauge when pulling hard for extended periods. Not sure that really applies to an M-B diesel, the point being that there are differences, some of which are recognized by transmission manufacturers and reflected in their warranties and service intervals. Further, remember that Mobil 1 engine oils now include group III synthetics, I believe that the Delvac 1 and Mobil 1 extended-drain products are the only "true synthetics" left in their lineup. The lower-grade group III synthetics were added to their lineup to compete with the pricing of other group III synthetics on the market.
__________________
Gone to the dark side - Jeff Last edited by babymog; 11-07-2007 at 09:28 PM. |
#57
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
BTW, I was wondering about Mobil's new oil lineup. I'm not surprised that they snuck in some Group III stuff... they've been doing that in Europe for years. I pretty much only use Delvac-1, although I do have some 15W-50 'Extended Performance' that I picked up for $4.xx/qt thanks to a price error at Target. When that's gone I'll be sticking with Delvac-1... and if that ever changes, I'll have to switch to Amsoil. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
I believe Red Line is another high-quality, true synthetic, but it's expensive and a hassle to buy (like Amsoil). I think next time I'm going with the readily available Mobil1 TDT oil.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The NAD is merely a self-regulatory arm of the BBB and has no legal standing whatsoever in the U.S. Hence, their ruling in this matter does not make it "legal" to claim that a Group III oil is "synthetic." It merely means that for any entity willing to abide by the NAD's guidelines, a Group III oil can be ADVERTISED under those guidelines as a synthetic
__________________
1999 C280 |
#60
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
http://www.redlineoil.com/ Here's an interesting note from one of their tech sheets: Dexron VI requires a different approach to conventional ATF formulation. Rather than beginning with a 7.5 cSt fluid and allowing a viscosity loss in use to drop to 5.5 cSt, the Dexron VI fluid requires a starting viscosity of less than 6.4 and a final drop to no less than 5.5 cSt. Red Line D6 will drop to no less than 6.1 cSt. Since the final viscosity after use of these fluids are similar, Dexron VI fluids can be used where Dexron III fluids were previously recommended. |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|