Dear Mr Beck,

We appreciate your comments on our website and are happy that our customers are interested in more details of our filters.

As you did not referred to a specific filter, I assumed that you were complaining about one of our filters which are indeed filled with cotton material. This could for example be our E170HN D16 (suitable e.g. for the MB W201 series with 2.5 Turbo-Diesel) or the E196HN (MB W123/S123 and others).
These filters are parallel-flow filters and are filled with raw cotton. This filling is described in the Mercedes Benz standard (DBL 8911, dated 2006-10). As it is in German I translate the relevant paragraph: "textile fibers, preferably raw cotton, with seed vessels and other natural pollutants are allowed. Additives like wooden fibers to increase stability are admitted. (...) Synthetic fibers which allow capillaries are not to be used. To avoid channel-forming, the material has to be filled equaly up to both ends."
I hope that the translation is understandable for you.

We supply this filter in this kind of manufacturing directly to the Daimler Company as we are the OEM for this part (OE-Number A 601 180 01 09).
Thus, the filter you were suspecting to be of bad quality is indeed a standard product for one of the worlds leading carmaker!

As I understand, you found some more foreign material in a filter like bugs and metal burrs. This should not be the case and I have to assume that this is a single case. In any case, the outer material will stop these particles from entering the oil system of your engines.

I hope I could answer your doubts about the quality of our products to your satsifaction!

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards

Wolfgang Stauss

- Quality assurance / Customer support -
Hengst GmbH & Co. KG
Nienkamp 55 - 85
48147 Münster-Germany

fon +49-251-20202-482
fax +49-251-20202-160
mailto:w.stauss@hengst.de
http://www.hengst.de

__________________
1980 300TD-T (82 Turbo and Trans) 159,000 Miles "Jackie-O"
1983 300SD 272,000 Miles "Aristotle"
1987 Jeep Wagoneer Limited - keeps the MB's off the ice and out of the snow
1994 BMW 530it

I am not buying the "single case" theory. I have found insects (similar to yellow jackets) and rocks in Hengst filters, as well as other brands.

Since they seem at least willing to communicate (which is more response than I would have expected), perhaps a case could be made by obtaining (five, ten, whatever) of the filters, splitting them, investigating them, and sending the company the material that was found inside.

Might lead to better quality control... might lead to a claim that we bugged the filters ourselves. Either way... at least they're talking. Might be interesting.

__________________


~Michael S.~
Past cars:

1986 300SDL
1987 300SDL
1982 240D
1982 300SD


Current:

1987 300SDL

I agree, nice response and it seems honest.

This topic has been discussed at length in the past. I know these filters have been problematic when they break apart and lead to serious engine damage.

I've got new Hengst filters in the basement...will take a look at them later today.

Red, thanks for making the effort to contact them.

I sent Wolfgang the link to the post in the forum and suggested he join the site to help inform our group and to get direct feedback from our members. I will say that I was pleased that within 6 hours of sending it, it had gone through the chain of commands and I had a reply from him. They took it seriously for sure.

The first filter I bought was a Mann. It came apart at the point where the two filters join. Since that time I have used Hengst. I have considered Donaldson, Hastings and Baldwin, but have not switched. I think I will stick with what I know while I consider the other brands I have mentioned (at least till I use up my current shelf full)

__________________
1980 300TD-T (82 Turbo and Trans) 159,000 Miles "Jackie-O"
1983 300SD 272,000 Miles "Aristotle"
1987 Jeep Wagoneer Limited - keeps the MB's off the ice and out of the snow
1994 BMW 530it

Contact Mercedes and ask if any engine that they warranty uses a filter with sticks, bugs and dirt in the filter element.

They've gone all fleece by now I think anyway in all their warrantied vehicles (all late model).

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

They havn't made cars that use these filters in 20 years.

I have been using OE filters in my 603 as well as Mann, Bosch, and Hengst since I got it. And since no alternative exists I think its safe to assume that all 603's and most 617's have been running on these filters since new.


I don't beleive a problem exists, I think this has been blown out of proportion. With either a 603 or 617 has there been one documented engine failure that can be traced back to a failed oil filter?

When MB spec'd these filters out over 20 years ago, their engineer's agreed that this was an acceptable filter media, and given the many hundreds of thousands of miles these engines last, I believe were correct in this.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Well, if I have an oil related failure before I reach 600K miles I'll know what to blame. I guess they will owe me a new engine for spec'ing these "inadequate" filters.

I don’t know about products made out side of the country but my understanding is that in the US they only have to replace the defective product. They would give you a new oil filter.
You would have to initiate a law suite for any chance of any more reparations. Besides having to otherwise prove your case you would also have to prove you did not cause the failure yourself by not installing the filter correctly.

The "specs" might be adequate. Problem is, the specs don't include some of the debris that is actually being put in the finished product.

Catastrophic failure is hardly a meaningful measure of oil filtration effectiveness.

Agreed. The dual-chamber filter system (in which some oil is continuously filtered and returned to the oil pan) is superior to a simple pressure-path-only filter. For diesels, it was thought that removing as much soot and other combustion products from the oil was important (and it is!). That's probably one reason why it's possible for these engines to last so long. It's also more expensive and probably why Mercedes chose to drop it in favor of the simpler system. Why give the customers prime rib if they're happy with hamburger?

Jeremy

__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970

These filters were not built like this when the engines were under warranty. The quality control is no longer an issue with MB since they don't have to pay for the consequences.

For me, this discussion comes down to the question of: Why take the chance when there is no upside? - only a downside.

How do you know these filters were not built like this from day one? Please cut open a vintage early 80's OE filter to determine whats inside. Until then we have no proof one way or the other.


I remember when this first started, the original thread was in 2004 I beleive, and sadly it got deleted.

I don't think the filter media is better in the Fram, its losely packed string, I doubt it does much.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I am going by what I was told by someone who was a service manager at a MB dealer when these cars were current. He is a german and has been involved with MB cars for many-many years. He said there was an earlier attempt to produce filters in third world countries and it ended up in a service program at dealers when they had to install auxillary bypass filters for a while - or something along those lines.

I agree that these threads go along emotional lines rather than anything based on fact. Most threads on this forum do.

Let's buy the most advanced and most expensive lubricant we can get and filter it through waste products from third-world countries. Let me think about this while I sip my imported, bottled, spring water from a glass containing ice-cubes made from city-water. Let me wash down my organic veggies with alchoholic beverages.

Whatever you are comfortable with is fine with me. Someone call DP and ask them to develop a crankcase purge product.

Anybody got a good horse for sale?