Oil Filter Quality - Hengst reply - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pawoSD · #31 11-17-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

You might want to study up of the specifics of the bypass filter and reevaluate that position. I am sure that anyone who understands the concept would agree that there is only one way for rocks, pebbles and insects to get inside the bypass section of the filter-they have to be "manufactured" in.

Yeah exactly, how the heck would rocks and pebbles and bugs be getting into the engine in the first place! LOL!

I'm going to cut open the Hengst filters on our other two cars when I take them out and see whats in them. Perhaps I will do that to my Fram at some point also....it will be awhile though, I've got thousands of miles before my oil change, and I only drive about 110 a week.

TwitchKitty · #32 11-17-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

They havn't made cars that use these filters in 20 years.

I have been using OE filters in my 603 as well as Mann, Bosch, and Hengst since I got it. And since no alternative exists I think its safe to assume that all 603's and most 617's have been running on these filters since new.

I don't beleive a problem exists, I think this has been blown out of proportion. With either a 603 or 617 has there been one documented engine failure that can be traced back to a failed oil filter?

When MB spec'd these filters out over 20 years ago, their engineer's agreed that this was an acceptable filter media, and given the many hundreds of thousands of miles these engines last, I believe were correct in this.

These filters were not built like this when the engines were under warranty. The quality control is no longer an issue with MB since they don't have to pay for the consequences.

For me, this discussion comes down to the question of: Why take the chance when there is no upside? - only a downside.

Hatterasguy · #33 11-17-2007, 01:45 PM

How do you know these filters were not built like this from day one? Please cut open a vintage early 80's OE filter to determine whats inside. Until then we have no proof one way or the other.

I remember when this first started, the original thread was in 2004 I beleive, and sadly it got deleted.

I don't think the filter media is better in the Fram, its losely packed string, I doubt it does much.

BIGRED · #34 11-17-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

You might want to study up of the specifics of the bypass filter and reevaluate that position. I am sure that anyone who understands the concept would agree that there is only one way for rocks, pebbles and insects to get inside the bypass section of the filter-they have to be "manufactured" in.

Ummmmmm it was a joke

H-townbenzoboy · #35 11-17-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Wasnt there someone on the MB club of america forum who stated that his 616's engine failure was caused by the internals of a purolator filter. Im trying to find the link to thread but i remember reading about a purolator filter that broke apart in the oil filter housing and seized up the engine.

You're talking about "VLayton".
http://mbca.cartama.net/showpost.php?p=81517&postcount=11
http://mbca.cartama.net/showthread.php?t=13253&highlight=purolator

uberwgn · #36 11-17-2007, 07:22 PM

Knecht Mahle filter for 606:

uberwgn · #37 11-17-2007, 07:35 PM

dealer-supplied (MANN) filter for M112 engine:

aTOMic · #38 11-17-2007, 07:43 PM

FWIW, there's a factory near Nashville that makes filters labeled Wix, but they also brand some as Napa and a couple other names I've forgotten. A friend who was there on business was impressed by their attention to such details as the drainback valve material, amount and quantity of filter material (he was surprised that they used the "fluff" but they explained that it does the job, along with the pleated paper), etc. I switched to Wix because of his "testimony" . I like to support AMERICAN manufacturers as much as I can; I swear it's scary how many factories are closing in the name of cost saving - I sell industrial supplies to these type places and folks, if we do not begin to pay attention to the origin of our goods I really cannot imagine what'll happen to the USA. Anyone who replies regarding my (apparently hypocritical) purchase of foreign cars needs to research how much of a Ford, for instance, is actually made in the USA; also I bet by the time one considers the techs, salesmen and other MBUSA employees we keep employed keeping our imported cars running we contribute more to the domestic revenue than an "American car" owner!

Hatterasguy · #39 11-17-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwgn

Knecht Mahle filter for 606:

Were talking about totaly different filters, the newer engines don't have the bypass section.

uberwgn · #40 11-17-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Were talking about totaly different filters, the newer engines don't have the bypass section.

Thanks for clarifying. These pictures I posted don't appear to be of concern.

Diesel911 · #41 11-18-2007, 01:49 AM

84 300D turbo
I only recently received my MB shop manual on CD but you thread got me to finally take a look at the oil system. If I am understanding it correctly the part of the oil from the oil pump is going through 2 parts of the filter at the same time. The part of the oil that is going to the engine bearings only goes through the filter paper element part of the filter at the bottom.
The other part of the oil goes through the upper part of the filter with the cotton waste inside of it and down the center of the return flow pipe (the long stem with the 2 small O rings at the bottom) and through a check valve from there back to the oil pan.
Even after the oil filter thermostat opens and the oil goes through the oil cooler the oil is filtered the same. Part goes to the upper portion with the cotton waste in it and returns to the oil pan and part goes through the paper filter element at the bottom the filter and into the engine.
If the filter is operating normally and there is also cotton waste inside of the paper element part of the filter there should be no chance of anything from the upper filter getting into you bearings.
If something did get out of the upper portion of the filter with the cotton waste it would have to travel down the return flow pipe (where I feel I would most likely be caught in the check valve) would go down into the oil pan. If it did get past the check valve it would go into the oil pan. Something heavy like sand, rock, metal and ect would likely stay in the bottom of the pan. I don’t think that bug parts would damage the oil pump. Plant parts; maybe but they would probably float to the top of the oil. The cotton would be what I believe could possibly jam up the oil pump.
If something completely blocked the check valve in the return flow pipe the engine bearings would still get their full supply of oil but the oil pressure would probably go up and might open the relief valve in the oil filter housing (3.5 bar on my vehicle).
Personally I do not understand why anyone would filter part of the oil and dump it back into pan. I do like the idea that the oil coming back from the oil cooler is filtered as if you got anything inside you oil cooler hoses when you change them it will be filtered out.

BIGRED · #42 11-18-2007, 02:14 AM

.........and junk would need to get past the oil pump screen.

The by-pass filter...from

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PollutionPrevention/upload/bypass-oil-filters-fact-sheet.pdf

What is a By-Pass Oil Filter?
A by-pass oil filter is an added system designed to be
used with a full flow oil filter to remove more and finer
contaminant particles, such as dirt and metals, than the
full flow filter alone. It consists of an outer casing and
mounting bracket, a dense inner filter media, such as
cotton, and a flow rate regulator. Some by-pass filters
also include a heating element and time released additives.
By-pass filters are available in various sizes for use
in all kinds of vehicles from a passenger car to large
trucks and other equipment.

Why Use a By-Pass Oil Filter?
Lubricating oil is made from a limited natural
resource and used oil is by far one of the largest hazardous
waste streams generated in California. A fleet
maintenance facility can generate thousands of gallons
of used oil each year from routine engine maintenance.
You can reduce the amount of used oil you
generate by using by-pass oil filtration systems to
extend oil life in your fleet vehicles. The by-pass filtration
system allows you to reduce purchase and disposal
costs of oil while still maintaining optimal
operating conditions.
Internal combustion engines require that their lubricating
oil maintain proper viscosity and total base
number (TBN) in order to perform at peak efficiencies
or to perform at all. Through normal use, the
viscosity and TBN of the oil changes as the oil gets
contaminated with metal, soot, and water and the
additive package breaks down. Lubricating oil itself
does not wear out, so if the contaminants are
removed the oil can keep doing its job.

What Does A By-Pass Oil Filter Do?
It filters solid contaminants from the engine oil including
fine abrasive particles and soot as small as one
micron or less in some types. Most full flow filters alone
can only remove particles larger than thirty or forty
microns without overloading, and plugging up. Some
by-pass filters can help evaporate liquids, such as fuel,
coolant and water, which can reduce or eliminate oxidation
by-products known as gum and varnish.

How Does a By-Pass Oil Filter Work?
A small amount of oil from the main oil galley is directed
through the by-pass filter where the contaminants are
trapped in the filter medium. The cleaned oil is returned
to the oil sump. The oil flow rate through the filter is
low, three to eight gallons per hour, and is controlled by
a metering jet, orifice or check-ball.

Gil · #43 11-18-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aTOMic

FWIW, there's a factory near Nashville that makes filters labeled Wix, but they also brand some as Napa and a couple other names I've forgotten.

Wix makes the filters for Napa, or so I've always heard. I'm pretty surprised at the number of Fram backers I've seen here so far. Every Fram filter I've seen cut apart shows how flimsy the inside material really is - I have no idea why they have the reputation that they do. Wix is a much better product. I'm also surprised at the number of people who think Mann is crap. I know little about them, but always heard good things.

BIGRED · #44 11-18-2007, 02:32 AM

I remember years ago, when I was in a car rally, there was a Ferrari owner who modified his lubrication system. It had a large oil tank (I assume therefore dry sump?), with the oil pushed through a series of filters and his oil system ran on electric pumps.

First thing he did was kick on the oil pumps, then start the car.

DeliveryValve · #45 11-18-2007, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil

Wix makes the filters for Napa, or so I've always heard. I'm pretty surprised at the number of Fram backers I've seen here so far. Every Fram filter I've seen cut apart shows how flimsy the inside material really is - I have no idea why they have the reputation that they do. Wix is a much better product. I'm also surprised at the number of people who think Mann is crap. I know little about them, but always heard good things.

The good Wix is the full filter version without a bypass section. I see what your saying about Fram filters. My experience is that some Frams for other makes and models are crap. But this Turkey Fram is the exception and not flimsy at all. It is a well built sturdy filter. In fact when I compared it to a Mann filter where is what I found:

Fram had a larger filtering area (Mann filter eliment is 2 3/8 inches tall vs Fram's element is 2 5/8 inches tall)

Fram had 70 pleats in the element vs 65 pleats for the Mann.

Fram did not have waste cotton gin like the Mann.