Injector nozzles from China: Your opinions, please - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

KAdams4458 · #1 12-07-2007, 03:42 PM

Lets say that hypothetically, someone was communicating with a Chinese manufacturer about producing injector nozzles for our beloved diesels. If the nozzles can be made to the same quality as the original Bosh part, and could be offered at a lower price than any Monark, Bosch, or Bosio nozzle, what would you think of them?

I know a lot of us have nozzles on the noggin. I know that I do. Given the possible lack of quality reported in Bosch nozzles from India, and the prices for any nozzle that's currently readily available to us OM616 and OM617 folks in general, I thought I'd pose this question.

Keep in mind that not everything Chinese is crap. They're fully capable of making high quality stuff these days. Just because Wal-Mart only imports low quality stuff doesn't mean that the Chinese don't make good stuff, too.

Edit: Please feel free to explain your choices, if you'd like. I'm very curious to know where the diesel folk stand on something like this.

pawoSD · #2 12-07-2007, 03:48 PM

No way. I will not use a product on my car made in China no matter what the quality is. They've put enough people in the US/Europe out of jobs....I'm not about to support it. In fact, I'd pay 2-3x more for nozzles made in Germany/Spain/France/Italy over chinese.

KAdams4458 · #3 12-07-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

No way. I will not use a product on my car made in China no matter what the quality is. They've put enough people in the US/Europe out of jobs....I'm not about to support it. In fact, I'd pay 2-3x more for nozzles made in Germany/Spain/France/Italy over chinese.

You must type like the wind... That was fast!

Anyway, that's a fair enough opinion. I do wonder if anyone has actually ever manufactured nozzles for our cars in the states... Somehow I doubt it. I think the only countries they make DN0SD240 nozzles in, for example, are Germany, (Monark, which is rumoured to have ceased producing them in Germany), India (Bosch), and Italy (Bosio). I don't think we'll specifically lose any American jobs over a Chinese nozzle. Maybe some jobs in India? After the last tech support call I made, I'd kind of enjoy causing lost jobs over there, though.

Thanks for your input!

C Sean Watts · #4 12-07-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAdams4458

I think the only countries they make DN0SD240 nozzles in, for example, are Germany, (Monark, which is rumoured to have ceased producing them in Germany)

If you don't mind, how did you hear that? I just talked to them today (email) and I've gotten about 30 or so for other people. UNLESS you mean the SD 240, specifically? That one is not being produced because the design has been revised and the newer ones are much cleaner and more efficient. They got rid of the pilot hole but still got them to make the engine to run smoothly.

Pierburg (now owned by Reinmetal) is supposed to still be making KCA style parts.

fdanielson · #5 12-07-2007, 10:06 PM

When I see that an item is manufactured in a certain country I always wonder what the motive is. In many cases domestically produced items tend to be sold domestically, no matter what country you live in. If someone goes to the trouble of importing a product there is always a reason. For example Mercedes-Benz is well known for producing automobiles and they are based in Germany so if I'm in the market for a car I know why mine came from Germany and it's not because they were the lowest bidder. If I'm shopping for something like a pair of sneakers and I see a pair made in Germany that are not distinctively different than other sneakers I've got to wonder what someone's motive was for going through the hassle of importing them.

Since the Chinese at this point in history are well known for fast and inexpensive manufacturing, unless there is evidence to the contrary, I have to assume that a product made in China was made there mainly because it will put more money in the pocket of the person or company marketing the product. Now if I were in the market for a distinctively Asian product I would not be suprised at all to find the best example of that product was made in China.

Experience has taught me that it is more often than not it is false economy to buy something simply because it has the lowest purchase price. I would much rather buy injector nozzles from a company because they are known to produce quality nozzles and not because they've figured out a way to save a few bucks by farming out the manufacturing to a far away land. If it turns out that there is a heretofore unknown to me factory in China that has a proud tradition of producing quality diesel fuel system components and whose nozzles are the subject of songs of praise then I would certainly consider those nozzles the next time I was in the market for a set.

KAdams4458 · #6 12-08-2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Sean Watts

If you don't mind, how did you hear that? I just talked to them today (email) and I've gotten about 30 or so for other people. UNLESS you mean the SD 240, specifically? That one is not being produced because the design has been revised and the newer ones are much cleaner and more efficient. They got rid of the pilot hole but still got them to make the engine to run smoothly.

Pierburg (now owned by Reinmetal) is supposed to still be making KCA style parts.

I did mean that nozzle specifically. My contact with them seemed to indicate that they may still have stock available somewhere, but are not manufacturing them. They did not offer info regarding an updated part, though. Are the newer nozzle designs they're making intended as upgrades for all vehicles that used the SD 240, or not? I would think they'd tell me they had interchangeable parts, but I did not specifically ask, so perhaps they would not. This warrants further investigation. Thanks!

#7 12-08-2007, 05:45 AM

Never. We import enough cheap junk from China as-is, we don't need more.

I'm happy to pay the higher price for non-china merchandise.

C Sean Watts · #8 12-08-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAdams4458

I did mean that nozzle specifically. My contact with them seemed to indicate that they may still have stock available somewhere, but are not manufacturing them. They did not offer info regarding an updated part, though. Are the newer nozzle designs they're making intended as upgrades for all vehicles that used the SD 240, or not? I would think they'd tell me they had interchangeable parts, but I did not specifically ask, so perhaps they would not. This warrants further investigation. Thanks!

PM sent

Did you ever read my "Calling all injector DIYers" thread?

Diesel911 · #9 01-14-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAdams4458

You must type like the wind... That was fast!

Anyway, that's a fair enough opinion. I do wonder if anyone has actually ever manufactured nozzles for our cars in the states... Somehow I doubt it. I think the only countries they make DN0SD240 nozzles in, for example, are Germany, (Monark, which is rumoured to have ceased producing them in Germany), India (Bosch), and Italy (Bosio). I don't think we'll specifically lose any American jobs over a Chinese nozzle. Maybe some jobs in India? After the last tech support call I made, I'd kind of enjoy causing lost jobs over there, though.

Thanks for your input!

When I worked in a fuel injection shop back in the 70s (Robert) Bosch nozzles were usually cheaper than the same application American Bosch (the German; Robert Bosch made nozzles for american engines competeing with American Bosch), CAV, Bryce and so on and at that time they had very good quality for the price. Since no one could beat there price here in the US as far as Mercedes is concerned no one that I know of produced American made nozzles for them.

C Sean Watts · #10 12-07-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

No way. I will not use a product on my car made in China no matter what the quality is. They've put enough people in the US/Europe out of jobs....I'm not about to support it. In fact, I'd pay 2-3x more for nozzles made in Germany/Spain/France/Italy over chinese.

What he said.

LUVMBDiesels · #11 12-10-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

No way. I will not use a product on my car made in China no matter what the quality is. They've put enough people in the US/Europe out of jobs....I'm not about to support it. In fact, I'd pay 2-3x more for nozzles made in Germany/Spain/France/Italy over chinese.

He spoke for me as well!

lietuviai · #12 12-08-2007, 12:53 AM

I have yet to see a good item that was made in china. They are either poor quality, of poor workmanship, or are potentially dangerous to the consumer. Everything they make is usually destined for the landfill and most of our landfills are already at capacity.

pawoSD · #13 12-08-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

I have yet to see a good item that was made in china. They are either poor quality, of poor workmanship, or are potentially dangerous to the consumer. Everything they make is usually destined for the landfill and most of our landfills are already at capacity.

Exactly. I have a couple china made shop lights that work ok....but thats it. My others are USA-made, I looked for them specifically.

I also will only buy USA made tools and such. Even though they cost 4x as much....doesn't bother me at all.

lietuviai · #14 12-08-2007, 01:14 AM

Think of all the Christmas trees, homes and people that will get burned because of those cheap $#!tty chinese lights this season.

Think it'll be different with chinese nozzles? I can picture the pintles breaking loose and shooting into the PC, breaking them apart and destroying your fine German engineered piece of precision machinery. Is it worth saving a few $$$ that could destroy an engine that costs about $5K to rebuild?

KAdams4458 · #15 12-08-2007, 03:01 AM

Very. very interesting so far. Keep the thoughts coming, please.

View Poll Results: How would you feel about Chinese-made nozzles?
I'd give them a shot if the price were right.	4	8.51%
I'd only consider them after hearing positive reports from other users.	12	25.53%
I would not consider a Chinese made nozzle under any circumstances.	31	65.96%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll