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  #1  
Old 12-19-2007, 12:17 AM
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starter problems

I did a search, and couldn't come up with anything. I got a 1983 300d turbo. The starter, every now and then sounds and acts like its free spinning. I put a rebuilt one in and it does the same thing. It will free spin ounce or maybe three times, then start right up. I took that first starter down to the local pro, and he said theres was nothing wrong with it. It looked good and it bench tested out fine. So, has anybody else has this problem ? Did I just get 2 ****ty rebuilt starters ? Or am I looking at something ? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2007, 11:00 AM
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I probably might check to make sure all the teeth are still in good shape on the flywheel or flexplate ring gear. Engines tend to come to rest in the same tooth area for reasons that are unknown to me.
Although once in an area of poor/no teeth it should not be able to pick up the drive again. Also quickly check the bolts on the bellhousing are not coming out. Other than that you may have got a bad replacement starter perhaps.
Not many other possibilities come to mind. Another long shot might be a flexplate with certain kinds of damage other than teeth as well. Chances are higher that you got another starter with a bad drive bendix perhaps .It can happen.

Last edited by barry123400; 12-19-2007 at 11:11 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2007, 01:09 PM
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linski,

This sounds like a solonoid problem. Its the solonoid's job to push the starter pinion gear into the ring gear and hold the pinion gear there until the engine starts.

Did U replace the solonoid with the new starter?

P E H
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:31 PM
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Thanks for the replys... The first one was a (out of the box rebuild) so I ASSUME it was, but one never knows. Ill check with the the pro, who rebuilt the second one. I had one mechanic, who has owned and worked on them for 25+ years and he really doesn't think its the flywheel, he says he never heard of one with tooth problems. Thanks again.
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2007, 11:23 PM
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I'd say solenoid problems- I just went through this with mine. It increasingly spun freely for about a year before its demise. Whacking it a few times does get it to engage the first time, but trying to start 3-4 times works too.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2007, 12:53 AM
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I have the same issue with my 300D's starter. I pulled the starter and bench tested it, the solenoid engaged every time. I even removed the solenoid cleaned the inside, all the contacts and when I put it back, it freewheeled again. Also the flywheel looks fine. I haven't tried another starter since I don't have another one nor do I want to spend the money on a new (rebuilt) one. I haven't located a good used one locally.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2007, 02:18 AM
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liet,

Your starter/solonoid is doing the same thing in the car and on the bench. But on the bench U didn't notice if the pinion gear travels far enough to engage into the ring gear and with the starter in the car, U can't see the travel

Possibly the solonoid is engaging enough to close the contact points which makes the starter spin, but not moving the pinion gear far enough rearward to engage the ring gear.

On the bench, check the linear rearward movement of the pinion gear to see if it is traveling all the way it can go.

P E H
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2007, 01:51 AM
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I think I was assuming the starter gear went all the way to the end of the snout because of the loud thunk. I'll probably have to pull it out again to be sure. I've had it out enough times where it no longer seems like a PITA.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:28 PM
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liet,

BTW, the solonoid should be timed so that the pinion gear shouldn't start turning before it is engaged with the ring gear. Otherwise the gears will clash, wear quickly and only the hold coil will be acticvating the pinion gear. .

The pick coil in the solonoid is released as soon as the contact points close and send current to the started. Then only the lower energy hold coil is holding the pinion gear rearward. Thus timing affects action of the magnets inside the solonoid.

P E H
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Old 12-22-2007, 01:08 AM
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PEH, thanks for these tips. I was totally oblivious to these specifics of the starter. I simply thought you turn the switch to apply current. The current hits the solenoid engaging the Bendix mechanism while at the same time the starter motor turns the gear. I never thought about any specific timing. I have not had to replace a starter in over 10 years. I've never had one apart other than to remove a solenoid to clean it.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2007, 01:56 AM
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liet,

The solonoid system of engaging the starter pinion gear is not a Bendix.

The Bendix system was the an early automatic engagment system which replaced the system where your foot actually engaged the starter gear. U probably don't remember the foot operated starter switch.

The pinion gear was on a spline with a twist. When the starter motor was energized it accelerated quickly because there was no load on it. The twist in the spline drove the pinion gear reward into the ring gear. When the pinion gear got to the end of its travel it was meshed with the ring gear and turned the ring gear. Some of these mechanisms had an integral over-running clutch so the ring gear didn't over-speed the starter.

My '60 Case tractor has this type of starter and Bendix, and it works fine, but I did have to replace the overrunning clutch once.

P E H
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:08 AM
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Thanks for correcting my terminology PEH. I misused the term for the actuating arm. I am actually familiar with a true Bendix gear found on early Ford starters as well as foot actuated starter switches on old Cadillac's.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2007, 02:16 AM
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liet,

I think the correct term is solonoid actuated starter.

P E H
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  #14  
Old 12-22-2007, 02:27 AM
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Actually both types of starters use solenoids.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2008, 08:58 PM
edmaz
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I have been told that the ring gear in my 1980 300 SD needs to be replaced, and that the transmission must be removed to do so. Most recent quote was about $800. I couldn't help but notice that no mention of removing the transmission was made above. Any comments?
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