Replacing Starter 1980TD - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tobybul · #1 01-30-2008, 11:21 AM

Looks like the starter gear may be stripped on the TD. I should have predicted it since it was showing signs of progressively missing since the time I started it many times weeks ago when I had air in the IP. I can now say that what the FSM said about excessive starting will #@%& the starter.

Anyways, I'll be working on it this weekend replacing the starter. It should be pretty straight-forward but am always open to advise/suggestions.

I decided to just get the starter from AZ. I was gonna order it online but its just a hassle shipping the core back. Plus, AZ offers a lifetime wty and for $99 at the store.... its kinda hard to justify going elsewhere. Yes, I know its not a Bosch

... but they are ALL remans anyway...

kerry · #2 01-30-2008, 11:49 AM

I used 2' of extensions, universals on both ends and a breaker bar. Starter motor comes out with wheels turned all the way to the right, over the top of the tie rod with solenoid turned towards the engine. I jacked up only the front of the car which made it a little difficult to get under the back of the tranny to loosen the bolts, but I still accomplished the task. Should be able to do it in less than 2 hrs. I think the difficulty of the job is overrated, it's not that hard. Good to have a helper to hold the starter from above when installing the bolts.

spinsession · #3 01-30-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I used 2' of extensions, universals on both ends and a breaker bar. Starter motor comes out with wheels turned all the way to the right, over the top of the tie rod with solenoid turned towards the engine. I jacked up only the front of the car which made it a little difficult to get under the back of the tranny to loosen the bolts, but I still accomplished the task. Should be able to do it in less than 2 hrs. I think the difficulty of the job is overrated, it's not that hard. Good to have a helper to hold the starter from above when installing the bolts.

I'd echo what kerry said. Make sure you've got long socket extensions. I used a 2'+1'+3" extension +universal on one end. This will get you past the back of the tranny where you can actually use the breaker bar, then the wrench. I too only had the front in the air (on ramps). I wound up having to disconnect the right tie rod even after turning the wheels both directions (be VERY careful if you're doing this on ramps). Having the car on jackstands with the suspension unweighted probably made the difference for kerry getting it out without the tie rod coming off. Either way though, it's not that big of a deal. Figuring out the super long socket extension is what took me the most time. I kept trying to get at it from the top or the side. After I realized I could reach it from the back with the extensions things went quickly. If I remember right, I also disconnected the tranny dipstick tube brace at the top of the motor to allow it to flex out of the way enough to get a hand in from the top to guide the socket into place. I didn't have the luxury of an assistant, but I completed the job myself in the 2hrs that kerry estimates. With an assistant guiding things from the top, I think that things would go much quicker. Get some long socket extensions, and Good luck!

tobybul · #4 01-30-2008, 12:15 PM

Thanks, Fellas. My 3/8" drive set has several extensions. Hopefully, the 3/8 drive will be beefy enough.

My TD is a non-turbo. Does this mean it might go even better? I have not investigated the project yet. Don't even know which side the starter is.

Also, where did you get your starters?

spinsession · #5 01-30-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

Thanks, Fellas. My 3/8" drive set has several extensions. Hopefully, the 3/8 drive will be beefy enough.

My TD is a non-turbo. Does this mean it might go even better? I have not investigated the project yet. Don't even know which side the starter is.

Also, where did you get your starters?

IMHO I think that you're going to struggle with a 3/8" drive socket set. My bolts were seized up pretty good. I used a 1/2" drive breaker bar and it was still a struggle. You can always put a pipe on the 3/8" wrench for more leverage...if your universal joint holds.

I don't think that the turbo vs. non-turbo will make any difference. It might be easier to get the starter out of the car if you think there's room for it to come out of the top (after removing the air cleaner assy.), but it won't matter in terms of accessing the bolts. The starter is on the turbo side of the motor, but the bolts come into it from the back (tranny side).

I pulled my starter for no reason. I had a (still unresolved) current drain that I thought was my solenoid. It wasn't, and the starter tested good on the bench so I put it back in. I can't make any recommendations on a new one.

tobybul · #6 01-30-2008, 12:40 PM

I have a compressed air set up for my garage (compressor in bsmt piped to garage). Mainly use it for wheel removal and occasional cutting. Don't have long extensions for the 1/2" drive.

At this point, am just glad I have a heated garage. it was 7F with -15F windchill and white-out conditions

this morning. Suppose to warm up to 17 tomorrow though

.

kerry · #7 01-30-2008, 01:03 PM

I don't think a 3/8 system would have taken the forces necessary to break free the bolts. I'd plan on using 1/2". My instructions apply to the NA, not the turbo model.
Impact wrench might be very helpful.

barry123400 · #8 01-30-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

Thanks, Fellas. My 3/8" drive set has several extensions. Hopefully, the 3/8 drive will be beefy enough.

My TD is a non-turbo. Does this mean it might go even better? I have not investigated the project yet. Don't even know which side the starter is.

Also, where did you get your starters?

There may be too much flexing with 3/8 extensions if so go right to 1/2 inch. You have to transfer the torque not radically twist the 3/8 extensions. A 1/2 inch breaker bar is usually required as well. That top bolt can be tight.
Thank me for posting this as your bolt will now almost fall out because I suggested it might be difficult.

Make sure your metric allen bit is bottomed in the fastening as well. This is one bolt you do not want to mess up.

unclemark · #9 01-30-2008, 11:05 PM

So if im understanding you correctly i need more than 3 feet of extensions to change the starter? Holly Crap!

vstech · #10 01-30-2008, 11:57 AM

does anybody ever use an impact wrench for this? when I worked in the shop I got the rep for fastest changer of parts... I used and impact wrench for EVERYTHING! impact universals, and GOOD extensions work everytime!

spinsession · #11 01-30-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

does anybody ever use an impact wrench for this? when I worked in the shop I got the rep for fastest changer of parts... I used and impact wrench for EVERYTHING! impact universals, and GOOD extensions work everytime!

I didn't, but if I owned an impact wrench I too would use it on EVERYTHING!!! lol

vstech · #12 01-30-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinsession

I didn't, but if I owned an impact wrench I too would use it on EVERYTHING!!! lol

first tool I bought when I got my own garage!
second was an air compressor... dang thing didn't work without air...
that was a Looooooong time ago. moved up to a nice IR 950Lb impact. indestructible...

yogarda · #13 02-05-2008, 10:40 AM

'83 300DT - I just had to pull mine last night - I had been trying to figure out a tool combo for a couple weeks, unable to find a thread like this.

However, I was able to use a 3/8" u-joint and a 3/8" set of extensions with an adapter to 1/2" just before my breaker bar. These were all impact-material from Harbor Freight (total cost under $30) which may have made the difference on torsion. And I didn't have to extend terribly long; maybe 1.5 feet. The tool placement was:

10mm hex socket; 3/8" impact u-joint; couple of 3/8" impact extensions totalling maybe 15", impact 3/8" -> 1/2" converter; 1/2" breaker.

I did take the tranny dipstick tube right out (it was time for a fluid change anyway), and I also removed the rear transmission mounting bracket AND my flex disc (!) to allow the tranny to drop and the bolt head to come away from the firewall quite a bit. I found that without all of these items removed, space was just too tight to be sure I'd get the right kind of leverage on that top bolt. (And it only takes 10 minutes to take them all off anyhow.)

Coming in from the underside, extension to the left side of the exhaust pipe between it and the tranny. Then the u-joint lets the extension swivel up, nearly touching the rear of the tranny. Let the breaker cross under the tranny, then pray, and then give a huge pull down/right.

Here are links to the tools I used:
Hex socket set $13: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93193
3/8" impact extensions $9: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2762 (they have these in 1/2" which I'd have preferred for 2 dollars more but my store was sold out).
And they have a $7 set of 3 impact u-joints in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" but I can't find that online at the moment.

Be prepared that the initial crack of those bolts is gonna make you think you broke the bolt or a tool. For me, as soon as each bolt cracked, it was nearly finger-tight. Scary.

And definitely I echo whoever said to use jack stands rather than ramps; starter does drop out when headed for the front of the car with wheels at full-right-turn that way.

I am not a professional mechanic; but for what it's worth, I was telling my wife this morning that I have never spent so much time working against a single bolt as that top starter bolt. In fact, I was sure I must have approaching the problem wrong, so I spoke with a mechanic at my local Merc dealer; he basically said he was shocked that one of these starters went bad because they almost never do, but for the few he's had to do, it's just a long battle. His quote was 4 hours, and he's got a lift. If I had to do this again with the toolset I came up with and the advice given throughout this thread, the 2hr estimate is spot-on, even with my extra steps of bracket, flex-disc, and dipstick tube removal.

unclemark · #14 02-05-2008, 12:16 PM

Sunday i was able to work on getting my starter out, Had to use a 2 foot and 1 foot extension, and a wobble joint. I foung the best way for me to get to it was remove the exhaust down tube. Took the starter to The Automobile Zone and O's to have tested and they both got a screen that the technicians have never seen before. Said something like "test incomplete test on car" took it to 3 other stores just to make sure it wasnt the tools and they were on the way to school and got the same reading. So i ordered another one. My bad luck yesterday was 80+ degrees outside, today 45. Starter will be here this afternoon and we are expecting winter mix tommorow. Im cursed

MB300D81 · #15 02-06-2008, 06:09 AM

Guys I can not thank you enough for this thread and all the help and advises offered here.

I managed to take off the starter moter send it for reconditionning and install it back into my 1980 300D.

It took me two and half hours to finish the job - Thanks to your help guys.

Some of the advises here was to have a helper to hold the starter motor.

I could not get anyone to help me so I used 3 wide cable ties formed in the shape of a chain - one cable tie at the motor cable conection and another two hanging the starter motor on the transmission dip stick bracket. Then I went under the car and started both bolts by hand and finished the job with mega long extensions.

I had to disconnect the muffler to drop the starter motor too.

That was really two and half hours of fun

Thank you so much guys.

Regards,

MB300D81
<><