Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-30-2008, 03:39 PM
cgryphon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northwest, Arkansas
Posts: 301
240D Starting problem…..Starter?

The 82 240D has been starting great all winter, down below 15F with no block heater. Then………
Just the past couple of days it gives me 2 or 3 misses, then starts up.

Steps: Turn key, wait for glow +10 seconds, turn to crank, maybe get ½ a crank, little stumble trying to turnover, then it sounds almost like it’s pushing against an immovable object or somehow binding, and just gets quiet – nada- nothing. No whirring, clicking, nothing, with the key engaged. Retry, and get the same thing. Usually on the 3rd or 4th try, cranks as normal and starts right up.

After start, runs great, all systems normal, no unusual noises.

What should I look for first? Battery is good, cables and connections are good. NEVER had a problem starting before, so this is a new area for me. Is this a starter issue or maybe something else?

Thanks!
__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 63K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 185K Black Wagon
1982 240D 1K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-30-2008, 05:19 PM
toomany MBZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Va
Posts: 7,820
The starter may be your next item to check, I had a problem with cold weather starting, that fixed it.
On a n/a engine, you can get to it from the top.
Good luck.
__________________
83 SD

84 CD
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:40 PM
cgryphon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northwest, Arkansas
Posts: 301
NO start

Well, left the trusty D parked at the work lot. Just would not start. 23F and snowing. Glowed and started cranking and trying to catch, but then the starter would just stop.....nothing.

Wait, re-glow, crank, no start.

On a couple of tries it might crank for 10 or 15 seconds.....other tries only 5 or so before it would just stop.

Looks like it will warm up to 35 tomorrow. I'm going to jump it an see if she'll go.

Seems like it must be the starter, but I've never had these symptoms before.
__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 63K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 185K Black Wagon
1982 240D 1K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-31-2008, 12:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 3,768
I agree it sounds like the starter. Since they are rather expensive for these cars, you might want to pull the starter and get a local parts house to do a bench test on it. They will usually do it for free.
__________________
Anyone who thinks a 300D is fast drives too slow.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 351,xxx miles
08 Triumph Street Triple 21,xxx miles, lowered 10mm in front, Pirelli Angel GT tires, otherwise stock.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2008, 12:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 225
i always like to point out the obvious first and then think about the more serious later....the battery could be dieing or not charged? in normal temperature it could work fine, but as it gets colder you have less effectiveness of the battery
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2008, 01:00 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
At first glance, I don't believe it's the starter.

I'd guess that it's low voltage......reason being battery, or alternator, or cables. When is the last time the cables were removed and cleaned?

Get a good set of jumper cables and see if another vehicle will allow the starter to easily rotate the engine and get it running. If so, then the starter is eliminated as the culprit. But, note that poor quality jumper cables, or a poor connection on the battery terminals on your vehicle will compromise this test.

Put a voltmeter on the battery before cranking. What's the voltage?

Leave the meter on the battery while cranking. What's the voltage?

When the engine won't crank anymore: What's the voltage?


Get some data and we'll solve the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2008, 08:10 AM
cgryphon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northwest, Arkansas
Posts: 301
It's supposed to be sunny today and up to 35F, so I will spend some time at lunch checking all the connections, trying to run some voltage tests, etc.

Brian, hope you are on the right lead, I don't want to replace the starter next.

The only thing I don't understand is the difference in cranking times.

I will try to explain by example:
1st attempt - glow +10 seconds.....cranks for 5 seconds and will not continue to crank
2nd attempt - glow + 10 seconds.....cranks for 20 seconds and will not continue to crank.

It does not go from a fast crank to a slow crank to no crank. It just stops cranking. Not gradually as if it is losing battery power. Just goes from cranking to nothing.

More later. Thanks for the help so far!

Clay
__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 63K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 185K Black Wagon
1982 240D 1K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2008, 08:50 PM
cgryphon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northwest, Arkansas
Posts: 301
Update

Went out this afternoon to have a look. 35F and sunny. Hooked up a running cars battery with jumper cables and let it run for ½ hour while I looked around. Checked all the battery cables and connections to the starter and ground, all AOK and strong.

Checked the voltage to the glow plug relay, each pin, and at the plugs. All running between 12 and 13 volts. Tried to check the glow plugs, but could not remember exactly how to do it. Ohms? All were running like .5 on the 200 scale. May have messed this up.

Gave it a try, jump still hooked up, and it would crank and crank. Not like before where it would just drop out. Crank, crank, crank………nothing. Good fuel smell out the exhaust, but not even a hint it would start. Seemed to be spinning fast enough to start, but no joy.

Decided to replace all the plugs on the spot. Off to Autozone and around $44 dollars and 1.5 hours later, new plugs in.

Ready? Cranks over twice, and fires right up!

Now the question. Talked to an Indy who says “I think it’s still the starter. Having the extra amps from both batteries is why it kept cranking. It’s a dying starter, the extra amps made it work”

I think I want to try a new battery first. FYI, I called the dealer. MB battery is $158.

Opinions on the starter comment? He also said that if the starter is more than 5 to 8 years old, it’s probably best to just replace it??????

Thanks,

Clay
__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 63K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 185K Black Wagon
1982 240D 1K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-31-2008, 09:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Have the battery checked out at one of the free check places. It might hurt a little to accidentally replace a good battery. On the otherhand if it is bad or marginal they will tell you as well. The autozone battery at about 90.00 reciently comes highly recommended. Think it was 65.00 when I first started watching this site.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-31-2008, 09:31 PM
toomany MBZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Va
Posts: 7,820
Glad to hear things worked out.
As long as it keeps starting, no need to replace anything else.
__________________
83 SD

84 CD
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-31-2008, 09:39 PM
cgryphon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northwest, Arkansas
Posts: 301
and another thing

Used a battery charger to check the old plugs I took out. Positive lead on the post, neg on the threads of the barrel. Reading ~12.5 volts between the post and barrel. NO GLOW ON ANY OF THEM!

Am I doing something wrong? I recall doing this last time I changed them, even with the new ones before I put them in. The new ones got red hot fast!

All fail at the same time? All were put in at the same time. Weird.
__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 63K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 185K Black Wagon
1982 240D 1K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-31-2008, 10:05 PM
Mustang_man298's Avatar
Man of the fire
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Shingletown,Ca
Posts: 941
Not sure if I'd trust using a charger, many of them have safety circuits that limit voltage/current and want to see at least 1v before they'll put out any power. I tested mine with a set of jumper cables on a good battery (using channelocks to hold the plugs as they -will- get hot).
__________________
Chris
64 190D R.I.P.
80 240D W/617 engine -for sale
82 240D -for sale
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-31-2008, 10:39 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgryphon View Post

Now the question. Talked to an Indy who says “I think it’s still the starter. Having the extra amps from both batteries is why it kept cranking. It’s a dying starter, the extra amps made it work”
Sure, it's possible that an old starter will draw a bit more current than a brand new unit, but he's talking out his ass without any data.

If a single, fresh battery exhibits the same problem...........then his conclusion holds some water..........but, my money is on the battery.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-31-2008, 11:35 PM
cgryphon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northwest, Arkansas
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
he's talking out his ass without any data.

my money is on the battery.
Thanks Brian, it's of course what I was thinking when I wrote the question, but best to hear from the +17K post guy.

Retested the glow plugs with jumper cables directly from the battery in the Suburban, still nothing on any of them, cold as a stone. Confirmed voltage at the ends of the jumper cables at 12.7.

We'll see what happens with the morning start. I'll get the battery checked tomorrow also.

Thanks for all the replys so far. I'll try to keep this going to the conclusion for future readers.

Clay
__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 63K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 185K Black Wagon
1982 240D 1K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-31-2008, 11:42 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgryphon View Post

We'll see what happens with the morning start. I'll get the battery checked tomorrow also.
If you do find that you need a new battery.........get the Autozone Duralast. It's supposedly up to $90. now (was $70) but you get an 84 month warranty that's good at any store without your receipt (they keep your phone number in the computer). Don't waste money at the dealer........you're just paying their markup........the battery is no better.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page