DANG!! Timing Chain replacement - 603.961 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Brian Carlton · #16 03-03-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz_diesel

OK, I backed up to assure the cam and the crank were still married to each other at TDC.

Well, ...so much for my confidence in that the chain hadn't slipped a few teeth when it slipped from my hands. And then again (looking at the great photo that Lux sent), I don't see how the chain could skip on the lower end if allowed to get slack. But, apparently it did... I had to back up the chain four teeth to get cam and crank synced. oookay...

So the chain is in, and the cam and crank are married at TDC. Now, ...I'm not so confident if the IP is still in sync.

Has anybody got any old cowboy tricks for setting the IP up? I did notice fuel at the #1 injector when passing through TDC, while checking for clear rotation once completing the chain. I only take that as being somewhere near the ball park. I haven't checked to see when fuel is introduced, so I need to do some reading.

I'm digging back into the m/m now to get a clue about the IP.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions. The is a great forum!

There is a port on the side of the IP. Remove the plug for this port and it provides access for the IP timing tool. The tool is a probe with two copper terminal ends that contact a rotating V in the IP. If you use a strong light and a mirror, you can possibly see this V as it comes around to the port. When it's in the middle of the port, the engine should be at 15° ATDC. I repeat: the crank timing is 15° after top dead center with the notch in the middle of the port.

Naturally, you've got to be on the power stroke and not on the intake stroke..........

benz_diesel · #17 03-03-2008, 06:35 PM

Thanks Brian.

Question,

The "V" coming into view or centered at 15 degrees after top dead center, ...this is just an index reference in setting up the IP timing?? Correct?? When does fuel actually hit #1?

Brian Carlton · #18 03-03-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz_diesel

Thanks Brian.

Question,

The "V" coming into view or centered at 15 degrees after top dead center, ...this is just an index reference in setting up the IP timing?? Correct?? When does fuel actually hit #1?

Correct.

The fuel hits #1 at 14°BTDC at idle on a 617. I would think the 603 would be similar.

benz_diesel · #19 03-03-2008, 07:02 PM

Thanks Brian.

The do the terminal ends on the test probe actually contact each side of the diverging -V- to give the test circuit continuity? Is that what the tool is physically doing?

I'm sure this should be done with the timing chain tensioner in, and all slop out. ...waiting for new crush washer for tensioner. I don't need to get ahead, just to back up again, ...chasing ghost.

Thanks

Brian Carlton · #20 03-03-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz_diesel

Thanks Brian.

The do the terminal ends on the test probe actually contact each side of the diverging -V- to give the test circuit continuity? Is that what the tool is physically doing?

I'm sure this should be done with the timing chain tensioner in, and all slop out. ...waiting for new crush washer for tensioner. I don't need to get ahead, just to back up again, ...chasing ghost.

Thanks

Yep.

and

Yep.

Bill Ladd · #21 03-03-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz_diesel

...(looking at the great photo that Lux sent)...

Actually stole that from GSXR. Just passing it along.

Sounds like you got everything situated. If you need a IP locking tool,

THIS TOOL IS WHAT YOU NEED. It will lock that tab BC talked about at 15deg.

Brian Carlton · #22 03-03-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Actually stole that from GSXR. Just passing it along.

Sounds like you got everything situated. If you need a IP locking tool,

THIS TOOL IS WHAT YOU NEED. It will lock that tab BC talked about at 15deg.

I own that tool.

I never got it to work.

My guess is that the slot in the face of the tool is too narrow for the point of the V..........either that, or the slot is not perfectly aligned with the V.

Your choice, but it never engaged the V and locked the IP, despite 30-40 attempts.

Bill Ladd · #23 03-03-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

I own that tool.

I never got it to work.

My guess is that the slot in the face of the tool is too narrow for the point of the V..........either that, or the slot is not perfectly aligned with the V.

Your choice, but it never engaged the V and locked the IP, despite 30-40 attempts.

Crap. Well, I gotta give it a try as my IP is sitting on a bench awaiting re-assembly of my engine.

Will report on it in my engine rebuild post.

Brian Carlton · #24 03-03-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Crap. Well, I gotta give it a try as my IP is sitting on a bench awaiting re-assembly of my engine.

Will report on it in my engine rebuild post.

On a bench with just the IP........you might have some success if you can feel the slot engage. I'm down under the engine hoping the slot will engage the tool as I slowly creep up to 15° ATDC. It might even engage the slot but come right out the other side as I advance the crankshaft..........I'd never know.

Bill Ladd · #25 03-03-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

On a bench with just the IP........you might have some success if you can feel the slot engage. I'm down under the engine hoping the slot will engage the tool as I slowly creep up to 15° ATDC. It might even engage the slot but come right out the other side as I advance the crankshaft..........I'd never know.

I see -- big difference then. Hoping that bench-installing the tool will go well.

benz_diesel -- M.B.DOC has the RIV tool available for rental if you need it. Look in the tool rental forum for details.

P.E.Haiges · #26 03-04-2008, 12:00 AM

Hatteras,

NO, the crank rotates twice for every rotation of the camshaft.

P E H

benz_diesel · #27 03-04-2008, 06:20 PM

PEH,

You are CORRECT! ...two on the crank, to one on the camshaft!

We were all asleep on our feet, glad you caught that!

Thanks

benz_diesel · #28 03-04-2008, 06:22 PM

Thank Brian and Lux.

I'll certainly let you guys know if the IP timing is on, ...or not.

benz_diesel · #29 03-05-2008, 08:09 PM

Brian, Back to the IP Timing. At 14 degrees ATDC, I keep coming across a, "tooth" dead center of the plug hole. Is this the indication I'm looking for correct IP timing? I've rotated the crank the full 720 degrees, and this is the only unique feature I'm noticing. Could this be it...?!?!

Brian Carlton · #30 03-05-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz_diesel

Brian, Back to the IP Timing. At 14 degrees ATDC, I keep coming across a, "tooth" dead center of the plug hole. Is this the indication I'm looking for correct IP timing? I've rotated the crank the full 720 degrees, and this is the only unique feature I'm noticing. Could this be it...?!?!

It is a "V" with the point sticking outward toward the port opening. It appears that you've found it and the timing is correct.