2005 E320 CDI experience/troubles - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #76 12-24-2008, 10:29 PM

You can run any car without a battery as long as the alternator is charging. You shouldn't because on the modern ones the computers would get pissed, and you can ruin the voltage regulator on the back of the alternator.

Cutting off power to the engine is a totaly different thing. I know a 606 will not run with no juice, my 603 will just. The ELS idle control on the IP gets annoyed.

Not trying to get involved, just clear up this misunderstanding. Remember the battery doesn't provide power once the engine is running, it simply stores it.

Skid Row Joe · #77 12-24-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

You can run any car without a battery as long as the alternator is charging. You shouldn't because on the modern ones the computers would get pissed, and you can ruin the voltage regulator on the back of the alternator.

That's correct, Hatterasguy.......ask me how I know?

husk · #78 12-24-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

You can run any car without a battery as long as the alternator is charging. You shouldn't because on the modern ones the computers would get pissed, and you can ruin the voltage regulator on the back of the alternator.

Cutting off power to the engine is a totaly different thing. I know a 606 will not run with no juice, my 603 will just. The ELS idle control on the IP gets annoyed.

Not trying to get involved, just clear up this misunderstanding. Remember the battery doesn't provide power once the engine is running, it simply stores it.

on a 606.962 you will get a ton of errors (i.e. a red flashing screen on the instrument cluster) but you can run it without a physical battery.

You cannot do this on a modern gasoline mercedes, have you tried it? The voltage regulator on the gas mercedes is linked to the OBD which will not allow it to run for a significant period of time (ie more than idle)

Hatterasguy · #79 12-24-2008, 10:51 PM

I won't try it with any car because its not good for the alternator.

I'd call 1800-4-Mercedes and have them bring out a new battery.

Bio300TDTdriver · #80 12-24-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husk

How often do EGR valves fail, in a modern Mercedes?

I believe that the system is based on technologies which have been around for a long time and that these technologies are reliable enough to offer trouble free operation.

I would like to hear from you, what specifically you believe will be the weak link of this technology.

Not true remove the battery from your C43 and romp on the gas and see what happens, it will stall. Your postulates are interesting but are based not on fact, but your armchair research. I suggest you get your hands dirty and try things out rather than making statements which are untrue.

OK, I'll try and explain it to you. The fairly simple emissions system on the OM603 (the MB diesel I'm familiar with) consisted of the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) and the trap oxidizer.

The trap oxidizer failed early on and was eventually recalled. The recall is still open to this day. The EGR valve itself does fail by sticking open; although it is not that common. The problem is when the EGR works as designed and starts to fill the intake and vacuum lines with gooey soot. The signal to the turbo is eventually blocked and the car is a slug. So both parts of the emission system failed to work as designed. That is a fact.

So my opinion is based on the car I own and what I've read about the new systems developed my Ford, Cummins, MB, etc. The system MB uses, may be proven technology (as you postulate), but certainly not on an automobile engine. I'm not an engineer, but all the new systems are extremely complex. For you to argue this point just leads me to believe you don't know much about those complex systems. You just assume they will be fine. I hope they are fine, but lets revisit this debate in 10 years and we will have our answer.

What Marty was saying (not to put words in his mouth) is that it doesn't make economic sense to own a diesel. I happen to agree with him. I still drive a diesel despite the economic loss in doing so. I want to be able to burn biodiesel instead of petroleum. So I won't be buying a bluetec anytime soon.

A couple other things I've noticed the postings. A good debater doesn't prove their point, by showing off how many nice cars they own or the garage they are stored in; although I do like the garage. Putting people down to prove a point doesn't work with me.

I suspect I've just wasted a layer of skin to type this, so please, take a minute and think about it as your read it. But as BC once said, I type not to persuade you, but so that others may learn.

Chris

husk · #81 12-25-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bio300TDTdriver

OK, I'll try and explain it to you. The fairly simple emissions system on the OM603 (the MB diesel I'm familiar with) consisted of the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) and the trap oxidizer.

The trap oxidizer failed early on and was eventually recalled. The recall is still open to this day. The EGR valve itself does fail by sticking open; although it is not that common. The problem is when the EGR works as designed and starts to fill the intake and vacuum lines with gooey soot. The signal to the turbo is eventually blocked and the car is a slug. So both parts of the emission system failed to work as designed. That is a fact.

So my opinion is based on the car I own and what I've read about the new systems developed my Ford, Cummins, MB, etc. The system MB uses, may be proven technology (as you postulate), but certainly not on an automobile engine. I'm not an engineer, but all the new systems are extremely complex. For you to argue this point just leads me to believe you don't know much about those complex systems. You just assume they will be fine. I hope they are fine, but lets revisit this debate in 10 years and we will have our answer.

What Marty was saying (not to put words in his mouth) is that it doesn't make economic sense to own a diesel. I happen to agree with him. I still drive a diesel despite the economic loss in doing so. I want to be able to burn biodiesel instead of petroleum. So I won't be buying a bluetec anytime soon.

A couple other things I've noticed the postings. A good debater doesn't prove their point, by showing off how many nice cars they own or the garage they are stored in; although I do like the garage. Putting people down to prove a point doesn't work with me.

I suspect I've just wasted a layer of skin to type this, so please, take a minute and think about it as your read it. But as BC once said, I type not to persuade you, but so that others may learn.

Chris

Ok Maybe I was not clear when I posted my question, so here it is again. On the new BLUTECH Mercedes vehicles, what specifically do you feel will be the weak link in the emissions control system?

By comparing 21 year old technology to the Blutech system (trap ox's have come a long way since 1987) it is not an accurate or valid comparison.

There is no economic loss in running a diesel, worst case scenario its a wash, the numbers that have been posted prove this. If you run HB Biodiesel it is actually significantly cheaper than unleaded.

The system is NOT that complex, you are not engineer, so that is probably why it seems complex to you. Its fairly quite simple, and the technologies used have been around for the past 50 years. I am an engineer, and by you saying that I do not "know" much about complex systems is based on nothing of substance. You need to do more research and find out how these systems work with each other. Once you do I suspect you will have a different perspective.

Hatterasguy · #82 12-25-2008, 07:50 PM

Well the emissions system aside, the GP's in the CDI are quite long like in the 606. So if you have to yank the head once to extract a broken GP...well there goes all your savings.

The CDI's probably produce less carbon in the cylinders, so they may not lock them in like on the IDI 606's. I havn't heard of any broken off GP's in CDI's, maybe because they don't have the same problem, or just because they are still to new.

Those 4 valve heads are tough with GP's, they have to be so long.