Question for W123 Greasecar users - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dieseldan44 · #1 02-12-2009, 11:29 AM

Guys,

Well actually three questions

I am going to put a 2 tank kit into my 85 300D sedan.

1.) Which tank did you choose? Round 13 gallon in spare tire well, or rectangular 15 gallon in trunk? Why?

2.) What accessories do you have other than the kit? Flat plate heat exchanger? Vegitherm?

3.) Any gothyas with the greasecar system and install that i should know about?

Thanks!
dd

KAdams4458 · #2 02-12-2009, 11:57 AM

Not a greaser and never will be, but I think I can address the second tank issue.

When MB designed the W123, they integrated crumple zones in to the car. That rear crumple zone was designed around a spare tire being there. Granted, by the standards of today, they rarely get very bent when a modern car plows in to the rear of a W123, but still, it's worth considering. I wouldn't not keep a spare in there. Put a tank anywhere but there.

frontwheel · #3 02-12-2009, 12:13 PM

I would sat the rectangle tank for easy access. the only issue with the rectangle tank is the way it mounts. they should use the width of the car allowing you to mount between the wheel wells so the weight is directly over the Axel instead of at the end of the car. GreaseCar needs to place the filler cap closer to one side or the other.

UriahT · #4 02-12-2009, 12:21 PM

I'd agree with the above post. Besides the crumple zone, I don't know why you'd want to not have a spare. And if you did, it'd completely negate the space saving issue.

The people I've seen running the spare wheelwell tank have disgusting trunks. Grease gets sticky and everything sticks to it. People with the cap a little higher up seem more successful in pouring cleanly.

You're in Boston. Get as much heat as you can. Get a higher output alternator, because when you start running electrical goodies, you'll have a hard time starting on the stock. It takes a lot of juice to start a diesel in the winter, let alone power line heaters.

The Greasecar kit looks like a good base, but you will need extra heat if you plan on running VO in the winter there. And the two tank won't become worth it to you unless you do longer distance driving. A 10-15 minute jaunt and you'll be on mostly diesel. I've seen it installed and it looks pretty simple to do. Take it slow and remember air bubbles and leaks early on are the biggest short term problem.

rsieracki · #5 02-12-2009, 01:06 PM

heres a better idea, go with a FRYBRID much better design and quality, a bit longer to get and a bit more expensive but MUCH MUCH MUCH better quality and design. keep in mind the cost difference when you realize that you will be driving for free, get the better kit, get the FRYBRID.

i researched it for almost a year, ordered my kit have it half installed as i have more enthusiasm then i do time, once the weather gets nice i will finish it tho.

oh, go with the square tank no matter who"s kit you buy,

moon161 · #6 02-12-2009, 01:14 PM

Chris (Frybrid) makes a trapezoidal tank that mounts right up against the diesel tank, doesn't he? Add the $250 greasecar gets for a $60 FPHE and 4 x $7 1/2" NPT street elbows, $325 for the copilot controller, and it don't look that much cheaper than frybrid any more. If your in boston, you'll pay sales tax as well for an in-state transaction. Start collecting, read up on processing.

I've never seen a W123 with more than a mess up trunk after a rear end. Mine took an SUV hit and run that rode over the bumper. Honest damage? Trips to the chiropractor, messed up back panel, folded trunk lid, some crushing in the last 2" of the 2" x 4" longitudinal box sections. Got nowhere near the obama poster in the rear window. This of course totals the vehicle.

dieseldan44 · #7 02-12-2009, 05:15 PM

hadn't though of the frybrid route. i know they make good stuff but i always considered it too much.

i guess now a greasecar kit for new england costs:
$1100 for base kit with rectangular tank
$300 for controller
$100 ish for ebay FPHE

so they are getting up there.

what are the major differences?

dd

pizzachef · #8 02-12-2009, 06:08 PM

I would second the Frybrid recommendation. You get aluminum fuel lines and there's no copper in the tank (don't know if greasecar still does that) and there's no coolant fittings in the tank (don't know if greasecar still does that either..if they do, its definitely something to avoid). And you get the FPHE included and the automatic controller.

However, if frybrid is too spendy or you don't want to wait for it, a greasecar kit would be fine. The big recommendation is an added FPHE, especially for New England. Manual operation isn't too bad to deal with, its what I do, but automatic operation would be nice.

Its not worth messing with electric heat, hot coolant is plentiful from the engine, free, reliable, and just the right temperature. Once your engine is up to normal operating temp, you should be good to switch over. If you have a heated pickup in the tank, a heated filter, heated lines, and a FPHE, your VO should be heated adequately by the time it reaches the IP. You just have to be smart with your plumbing. Try to keep the runs short after the FPHE. ALso, insulating the lines helps (I haven't done this yes, and my fuel temps never get below 165F even when below freezing).

I'd go with the rectangle tank. Frybrid makes one that fits right up in the back of the trunk (against the back seat or diesel tank). Don't know if the greasecar tank fits there, but its the most out-of-the-way place there is.
good luck.

kgregg · #9 02-12-2009, 06:23 PM

Let me third the Frybrid recommendation. I got 20 gal tank alum that fits in trunk right up against rear seat. (I have 92 300D).

pizzachef · #10 02-12-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldan44

what are the major differences?

Sorry, I missed this part. Here's a table on frybrid's website. I don't know how current it is, you may have to double check the facts about greasecar, but the frybrid stuff hasn't changed.
http://www.frybrid.com/kittest.htm

In a nutshell, with frybrid you get aluminum tubing fuel lines inside a 3/4" heater hose for hose-in-hose (HIH) heated supply and return fuel lines. Greasecar has a HIH setup, but uses PEX tubing instead of aluminum. Also, there's only one line coming from the tank, so when you purge, the fuel is pushed back through the VO filter. And the return is always looped, so if you get an air leak, theres no way to purge the air out of the loop (while running on VO). Frybrid has a full return setup so any air in the system gets pushed back to the tank. Adding a third valve to frybrids setup allows you to loop the return when running normally (keeps fuel hot, eases load on filter) and can switch to return to tank for purging.

The heated pickup in the tank is copper in greasecar, aluminum in frybrid. The greasecar pickup uses compression fittings to keep the coolant from leaking into the tank. Frybrid has all welded fittings.

Frybrid has automatic operation, based on coolant temperature. Greasecar is manual operation (3-way toggle switch) and you switch when the car is warmed up. You can upgrade greasecar to the co-pilot.

Frybrid includes a FPHE.

I think that's about it. Both are good kits. One uses better materials for working with VO, but, of course, is more expensive.

muleears · #11 02-12-2009, 07:04 PM

I have a GC kit in my E300 and it has performed flawlessly for the past 18 mo. But you MUST add additional heat. I have a FPHE. Without, my temps were in the one teens, with I am in the 150-160 range. I am buying another car and may go Frybrid, just don't like losing the info. the Co-Pilot displays.

imagesinthewind · #12 02-12-2009, 07:35 PM

I hate Chris. I wouldn't use Fry if you gave it to me. And frankly his service SUCKSSSS!!!! If you want to wait months for a part or for any service, choose Fry.

I have the round tank from GC and don't have a disgusting trunk. Actually I keep the
trunk pretty darn clean. I have a large funnel that fits the very large hole and I also
keep a couple small ick towels that I put around the fill hole when I fill. Keeps the trunk clean.

I have to go with Greasecar for price and service. Also, think about insulating the line from the tank under the car to the stuff under the hood. Makes getting to max temp fast and easy and protects the line.

Good luck, driving for free and smelling good it great!

mobetta · #13 02-12-2009, 07:45 PM

build your own for way less.........

dieseldan44 · #14 02-12-2009, 10:54 PM

Wow. thank you...this has been an informative thread for me. i have always seen the kits but have never really evaluated the engineering quality of them. i figured greasecar was significantly cheaper than frybrid, but that really isn't the case anymore as someone posted out.

i have done a lot of tinkering building my processing equipment for making biodiesel. based on that experience frybrid may be the way to go. i could roll my own but I need this thing to be rock solid out of the gate. i dont want to have to mess with the conversion come september, im going to be back in grad school and will not have time to tinker.

ginny, your account of dealing with frybrid is indeed a bit disconcerting.

dd

Joe Marroso · #15 02-13-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldan44

Guys,

Well actually three questions

I am going to put a 2 tank kit into my 85 300D sedan.

1.) Which tank did you choose? Round 13 gallon in spare tire well, or rectangular 15 gallon in trunk? Why?

2.) What accessories do you have other than the kit? Flat plate heat exchanger? Vegitherm?

3.) Any gothyas with the greasecar system and install that i should know about?

Thanks!

dd

Well Dan,

I am usually reluctant to join in the WVO/SVO discussion because of the sometimes visceral statements surrounding the conversion process. Don't get me wrong, I don't shy from debate, quite the contrary, I just see no purpose in antagonizing the very people that have been so helpful to me in the past.

Nevertheless, if you are committed, let me see if I can provide some illumination.

There are VO hazards:

1) The anti-VO boys ain't wrong expressing their concerns regarding "coking." Coking results from incomplete combustion of poor quality fuel. Cold VO is like injecting 90 weight axle dope into a combustion chamber. But, but, but: heating the VO prior to it entering the injection pump mitigates, in my experience, this occurrence. The purists think that a turbo injected diesel is far too complicated to run on WVO and in doing you are issuing a death sentence for the engine. Perhaps. Mine is an old car, one step away from the crusher. Where is the harm if I squeeze 20,000 city miles (like I have) out of a car destined to be dismantled? If I keep a few bucks out of the hands of Mid Eastern thugs in the process, so much the better.

2) Contamination of WVO fuel is a greaser's obscenity. Filter, then filter some more. Water in the WVO presents a cruise missle heading for the IP. However, my Raycor filter has a 30amp heating element designed to eliminate the water in the fuel. Whatever system you decide upon, reckon with water dispersed in the VO.

3) I live in sunny Las Vegas, the weather is conducive to greasing. Hardly any algae growth in stored SVO, no hard starts and no need to mix fuels. A harsher climate may yield different experiences.

The Kits:

I am very reluctant to shill for any products. Both conversion kits mentioned have their strong points and I think that frybrid sells the highest quality material. I wish to throw another name into the ring, Golden Fuels. I bought their kit ($1000 plus shipping) May 2007 (it is more now, I'm sure). Everything was included. I chose a 12gal tank (pic below) because of the reasons outlined by our brethren in this post. GF's tank has a dozen recessed threadings so you can almost assuredly find a good mounting spot. Now, Golden Fuels uses the infamous Pollack valve. This is the valve that switches the fuels when the engine is at operating temperature. It is a piece of crap, yes. It has failed me twice, yes. But, I squirted a little WD-40 in the body of the valve and it resumed working. Methinks, debris got lodged in the solenoid and locked it in place. Since then, I have been hyper cautious with the filtering and have had no problems for the past 8 months. One last point, GF uses a hose bundle with the VO hose and in/out coolant hoses wrapped in yet another hose. This has been deemed Mickey Mouse or at least inferior to other kits. I don't see it. The HIH application has been failsafe. You can decide for yourself.

Oh, when I called, GF answered their phone and even returned messages.

Gotchas:

Check out the integrity of the existing fuels lines. My fuel tank hoses were slightly worn, sucked air but didn't leak fuel. A tough one to isolate then fix. Your fuel tank screen may be dirty, this is a good time to take it out and clean the screen. On my 85 SD, I had to take the tank out. Point of Order; removing the tank is no day at the beach.

Get yourself a Might-Vac or similar. Do not try this job without. There will be a lot of air trapped in the fuel lines.

The injection return lines are most likely bad, replace those for sure. This can be a source of air leaks.

There is a lot of controversy about the VO return line loop and the banjo bolt. I have not had a problem. I am not sure how frybrid and Greasecar deal with the VO return but a loop works for me. Don't loop VO back to the diesel tank.

Joe Marroso