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  #1  
Old 02-16-2009, 12:02 PM
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240D won't return to idle

I've mentioned this in my rebuild thread, but I thought I might get better visibility here.

The 240D I just finished rebuilding has a problem with the injection pump. When we first got the car running a couple of months ago, it didn't do this, but does now.

When you let off the throttle, it is very slow to return to idle, or if the rpms are high enough, ~2000 or so, won't come down at all.

The only way to return to idle is to put a load on the engine or push the stop lever.

Note that the engine will stop when the key is turned off, but won't stop when you push the stop lever all the way.

Anybody have this before?

I disconnected the linkage to the throttle and it doesn't change its behaviour. The arm on the IP return to the idle stop right away.

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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #2  
Old 02-16-2009, 03:43 PM
83240D
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I would say that there is a hang up inside you IP. Mine did this as well, but it turned out that all of my linkage ball sockets were dry and sticky. I sprayed white lithium grease into all the ball sockets and it works like a charm now. Nice and smooth action. Returns right back to idle right away. But you say yours does this even with the linkages disconnected. If it were me I would try letting it idle while I got a little rough with the IP linkage arm. Now I dont mean rip it off, but Pull up on it and back down over and over with some force and see if it does any better. I am not sure how these IP's are governed, but it may be your governor sticking or something? Just some ideas.
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplafleur View Post
The arm on the IP return to the idle stop right away.
What's the idle rpm?

Is it possible to reduce the idle rpm at the stop lever?

It sounds like a governor flyweight issue, but reducing the curb idle might help the situation.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2009, 05:00 PM
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Also check all the linkage... I had similar situation and taking apart the linkage joints and lubing them ( I think only AT fluid is FSM instructions ) and making sure your linkage return spring down near the firewall is in place fixed mine...
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2009, 05:48 PM
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I disconnected the linkage. I can grab it and hand throttle the IP. It acts the same.

I can pull it up to the idle stop and the engine idles.
If I push down slightly I can rev the engine slightly and when I return it to the stop, the idle slowly returns.
If I push down further to rev the engine higher and return it to the idle stop, the revs don' come down. I have to pull up on the linkage so as to try to stop the engine to get the rpms to come down.
If I pull up all the way, the same as pushing the stop lever all the way, the engine won't stop.

Maybe the idle speed adjustment screw worked it's way down and is stopping us from getting the travel we need.

We (my son and I) will try tonight.

I will add a picture from the FSM later...
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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #6  
Old 02-16-2009, 06:33 PM
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Do you have one of those dash idle adjustment knobs ?
Could it be broken and interferring ? Or set wrong ?
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2009, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Do you have one of those dash idle adjustment knobs ?
Could it be broken and interferring ? Or set wrong ?
I believe it does, but that cable is loose against the linkage. It also has no effect when I disconnect the linkage (2) shown below:

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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #8  
Old 02-16-2009, 10:45 PM
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I am not seeing from you post how old your 240D is. Some of the older cars have Pneumatic Governors and the newer ones Mechanical Governors.
Troubleshooting them is different.
Also some of the older IPs are not lubricated by the Engine Oil, you have to keep the IPs own sump filled with oil (the oil evaporates with use due to the IP getting hot).
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Diesel911; 02-17-2009 at 11:16 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2009, 11:34 PM
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Ya got the spring on there right?
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2009, 11:37 PM
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The car is an 80, but I have no idea if the IP is from that year. The engine I pulled is not original to the car. That one is in a friends garage. I think this IP came off the engine I pulled, but it could have been the IP from the doner block. I have another IP, but it looks slightly different.

Let me find a different picture of the IP.

Here we are:



And another:

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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #11  
Old 02-16-2009, 11:47 PM
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Location: Flowood Mississippi
Posts: 438
Ip

Did you try working the rack back and forth through the shutoff valve mounting hole...?
Sounds like the rack is hanging inside ....(will have too remove shutoff valve to get to end of rack...
The shutoff valve has an (L) shaped end that hooks into the rack to pull it into fuel shutoff when vacuum is applied...
The governor controls the rack most other times.....
If it moves freely with your hand...then you know it is not binding internally...
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1978 Yellow 300D (The Mustard Toad)
1980 Blue 240D (The Iron Toad)
1989 Grey Mitsu.4WD Mighty Max Pickup (Needs a Diesel transplant bad)

(Open the pod bay doors HAL)
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2009, 12:22 AM
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I'll try tomorrow night. I didn't get there today.
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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #13  
Old 02-17-2009, 07:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Flowood Mississippi
Posts: 438
Ip

The one I have here apart takes about 3-5 ounces of pressure to push the rack completely forward with my hand....
I do not have the plungers in this one but the return spring pulls the rack back to rest position quickly and smoothly when I release the forward finger pressure....
Remove your vac valve and try this to see if it is binding...

IMPORTANT....SEE BELOW....

Careful going back together with the shutoff valve to make sure it gets attached to the rack in the slot.....
If not...... the arm can hold the rack in full throttle position ....
Max rev engine upon startup ...no throttle control....not good....

I know the Bosch IP shop owner here if you need me to ask him some questions....
This is the first test he had me check on mine when I thought I had IP trouble.....
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1978 Yellow 300D (The Mustard Toad)
1980 Blue 240D (The Iron Toad)
1989 Grey Mitsu.4WD Mighty Max Pickup (Needs a Diesel transplant bad)

(Open the pod bay doors HAL)
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplafleur View Post
The car is an 80, but I have no idea if the IP is from that year. The engine I pulled is not original to the car. That one is in a friends garage. I think this IP came off the engine I pulled, but it could have been the IP from the doner block. I have another IP, but it looks slightly different.

Let me find a different picture of the IP.

Here we are:



And another:


This IP has a Mechanical Governor and the Aneroid is the cylindrical thing on the very top of the pump and it is lubed by the Engine oil.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Diesel911; 02-17-2009 at 11:27 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Also some of the older IPs are not lubricated by the Engine Oil, you have to keep the IPs own sump filled with oil (the oil evaporates with use due to the IP getting hot).
Do you mean it is not connected to the engine oil supply and I have to fill it up?

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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)


Last edited by mplafleur; 02-17-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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