Onboard pre-oiler - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Simpler=Better · #1 03-25-2009, 10:02 PM

How feasible would it be to setup an onboard pre-oiler that would lubricate the engine while you're running the glow cycle?

kerry · #2 03-25-2009, 10:21 PM

Just put a manual vacuum switch on the shut off valve and crank the engine for a few seconds without fuel to oil the engine before it starts if it concerns you.

bgkast · #3 03-25-2009, 10:33 PM

It can be done and has been discussed before but I think the consensus is that it won't really help pre-lube the cylinders which is where these engines seem to wear out first.

Jeremy5848 · #4 03-25-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

It can be done and has been discussed before but I think the consensus is that it won't really help pre-lube the cylinders which is where these engines seem to wear out first.

. . . plus the usual reminder to not rev the engine any more than necessary to keep it running until the oil pressure comes up.

compress ignite · #5 03-26-2009, 12:53 AM

If you took Kerry's suggestion and had a Pre-Oiler online...
(OP @ 50+ PSI and engine rotation without ignition)
I'll venture to say your engine wear potential would reduce to the 5% level from
what it is now,with a cold dry start.
Plus,You'd have post-shut-down oiling available for the Turbocharger.

LUVMBDiesels · #6 03-26-2009, 05:15 AM

You could try something like this...

http://www.worldlube.com/preoiler.html

I guess you could either plumb it into the cooler return line or tap into the oil filter housing.

#7 03-26-2009, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

It can be done and has been discussed before but I think the consensus is that it won't really help pre-lube the cylinders which is where these engines seem to wear out first.

Except that runoff from the piston jets will contact the walls too.

Bajaman · #8 03-26-2009, 08:57 AM

I installed a homemade version on my Scout. It was actually very helpful because it would usually take a good 15-20 sec to build oil pressure after starting. Now I have instant oil pressure. The 617 only seems to take about 2-3 sec to get oil pressure. A pressure type plumbed into the oil gallery would be the simplest solution.

moon161 · #9 03-26-2009, 11:22 AM

An pneumatic amsoiler wouldn't be to hard. You basically need a pressure/storage vessel w/ 2 x 1/4" FPT holes in the bottom. Inlet gets a check valve w/restriction so it doesn't starve the engine on refill, outlet is a solenoid valve. This would be hitting the high side of the filter, in parallel w/ the oil system. Not a huge deal if the solenoid fails in either position.

You could even do it very simply in series w/ the oil system just- a storage element and a solenoid valve, fed by IGN HOT and also HOT when the starter is cranked. In addition, it better be happy w/ 8V, 10V or whatever your battery draws down to when it cranks. You would lose oil supply if your engine runs on when the key is pulled, unless you switch at the dashboard, then you have ID10T problems instead. The risk is severe if the solenoid fails closed- you'll pump the sump dry and hear a screech if enough oil doesn't follow the timing chain down from the head.

In either case, with a single shot operation, you'll get pre or post run (turbo) protection, but not both. Seems to me that dumping the turbo through dump valve that opens when it loses IGN HOT is a better way to protect it. A dead headed turbo spins on because it's no longer doing any flow work, it just has losses at the bearing and viscous losses on the internal flow. Sucking air thru the filter and blowing it out should quench that momentum fairly quickly.

Fun stuff! Makes me wish I was working, again. DAMN! Where's my drafting pencil! I need the back of an envelope!

Simpler=Better · #10 03-26-2009, 01:01 PM

Hmmm. I'll continue to look into this....

whunter · #11 03-26-2009, 03:50 PM

Prestart oil prime of a long storage engine can save your bearings and bank account.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/86683-prestart-oil-prime-long-storage-engine-can-save-your-bearings-bank-account.html#post565636

instalation of block heater/pre-oiler, etc
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/30691-instalation-block-heater-pre-oiler-etc.html#post166907

Would a pre-oiler lengthen engine life?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/31847-would-pre-oiler-lengthen-engine-life.html#post174393

AutoEngine, Pre Oiler...
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/160646-autoengine-pre-oiler.html#post1237783

Diesel911 · #12 03-26-2009, 05:32 PM

Complicated idea.
You have a small Vane or Gear type pump driven off of the rear of your starter. The starter is wired so that when you press a button or hooked to the GP circuit the Starter spins and the Soleniod does not active so the Starter does not engage the Flywheel driving the Pre-lube pump.

When you turn the key the Starter operates as normal.

oldiesel · #13 03-26-2009, 09:10 PM

Pretty much standard equipment on many big generator and industrial engines.On 399 cats when you pushed the start button the only thing that started was the pre-oil pump,once it built sufficent pressure a pressure switch activated the start relay to the solenoid so at least Cat felt it was a worthwhile engine saver.Considering the cost of a 16cyl diesel eng the pre-oil system was small potatoes i guess. Don

strelnik · #14 10-09-2014, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon161

An pneumatic amsoiler wouldn't be to hard. You basically need a pressure/storage vessel w/ 2 x 1/4" FPT holes in the bottom. Inlet gets a check valve w/restriction so it doesn't starve the engine on refill, outlet is a solenoid valve. This would be hitting the high side of the filter, in parallel w/ the oil system. Not a huge deal if the solenoid fails in either position.

You could even do it very simply in series w/ the oil system just- a storage element and a solenoid valve, fed by IGN HOT and also HOT when the starter is cranked. In addition, it better be happy w/ 8V, 10V or whatever your battery draws down to when it cranks. You would lose oil supply if your engine runs on when the key is pulled, unless you switch at the dashboard, then you have ID10T problems instead. The risk is severe if the solenoid fails closed- you'll pump the sump dry and hear a screech if enough oil doesn't follow the timing chain down from the head.

In either case, with a single shot operation, you'll get pre or post run (turbo) protection, but not both. Seems to me that dumping the turbo through dump valve that opens when it loses IGN HOT is a better way to protect it. A dead headed turbo spins on because it's no longer doing any flow work, it just has losses at the bearing and viscous losses on the internal flow. Sucking air thru the filter and blowing it out should quench that momentum fairly quickly.

Fun stuff! Makes me wish I was working, again. DAMN! Where's my drafting pencil! I need the back of an envelope!

These are often the topic of discussion on the 181 platform cars.

TheSamba.com :: View topic - Pre-oiling devices?

Mxfrank · #15 10-09-2014, 02:19 PM

I used to use an Accusump on my race car. It's a pneumatic reservoir plumbed into the system. It has a one way valve that can be released with an electrical signal. While the engine is running, it builds pressure. When you want to start, you open the valve, forcing a shot of pressurized oil through the oil galleries. Works great. I haven't looked, but I bet there are plugs on the right side of the block than can be removed to fit it up.

Canton Racing Products

As has been mentioned, just rigging the stop lever to allow manual control will give you the option of cranking for a few seconds before you start. That will build more than enough pressure to prelube. And then again, my 190DT has made it to 340K miles without prelubing.