PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/)
-   Diesel Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/)
-   -   IMPORTANT........PEACHPARTS DOMAIN NAME CHANGE.....ALL MEMBERS READ!! (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/249305-important-peachparts-domain-name-change-all-members-read.html)

TOPGUN 04-05-2009 09:33 PM

I don't care for the peach name. There are some talented people that have kept the forum operating for many years. I think they have a plan. If not, have the members rename the forum. That big water needs a giant Mercedes star painted on it.

tbomachines 04-05-2009 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu (Post 2160346)

I wonder how many people because of this Forum, bought their first MB? Or for that matter, new MB?

Charlie

Well count me for one! I've always been interested in the 123 and 126 diesels, but it was the research I did on this forum that persuaded me to buy my w126 "boxy brown". I was able to create a big ol' spreadsheet with items that needed to be replaced and MB's numbers/prices for an immediate approximate cost of ownership. It is only because of this forum that I could inspect the car with decent enough knowledge to ultimately determine it was worth the maintenance to put it back on the road.

As for the name change, peachparts makes me cringe a little bit inside. I like to think of my 126 as a derivation of some bad-ass german tank or something. For some reason it just doesn't seem to ring well. But hey, what can you do...at least the site will still be alive and helpful--so major kudos and thanks for that!!:D

daw_two 04-05-2009 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu (Post 2160346)
Yeah I have one of those grill badges, thanks or getting them made. we that have them. better keep an eye on them at the GTG`s :).


I wonder how many people because of this Forum, bought their first MB? Or for that matter, new MB?


I think I bought a grill badge......*daw wonders*

Yep; I bought my first MB because of this forum. This forum then managed to turn me into a MB fanatic. :eek:

Skid Row Joe 04-05-2009 10:33 PM

My first pet cat was named Peaches. A decent cat. My first GF I nicknamed her Peaches.

It seems a strange & fruity name for a Mercedes-Benz Shop forum, however.

I had a client 25 years ago named Frank Peacher, he was straight as an arrow.

Bill Wood 04-05-2009 11:29 PM

Guys, the domain name is not that big a deal.
The important thing is the content that is here and the members that contribute to this forum.

Unfortunately, I am not able to explain all of the details behind this change but it is what it is. The domain name had to be something that had absolutely nothing to do with Mercedes in any possible way. PeachParts is perfect in that respect. Let's move on.

This website will continue to be what it has always been. There is no plan to change anything but the domain name.

TylerH860 04-05-2009 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160789)
Guys, the domain name is not that big a deal.
The important thing is the content that is here and the members that contribute to this forum.

Unfortunately, I am not able to explain all of the details behind this change but it is what it is. The domain name had to be something that had absolutely nothing to do with Mercedes in any possible way. PeachParts is perfect in that respect. Let's move on.

This website will continue to be what it has always been. There is no plan to change anything but the domain name.

Oh come on, there are an infinate amount of names better than peachparts...

Anything related to german cars, or cars in general would be fine.

Bill Wood 04-06-2009 12:03 AM

What's the point in discussing it?
The name is fixed and WILL NOT CHANGE. You are beating your head against the wall! The discussion is over. There is no debate.

bgkast 04-06-2009 12:11 AM

Well this site was great while it lasted. :(

DeliveryValve 04-06-2009 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160822)
What's the point in discussing it?
The name is fixed and WILL NOT CHANGE. You are beating your head against the wall! The discussion is over. There is no debate.

Come on Bill, the members here are in SHOCK of the name change. The name Mercedesshop.com means so much to us. It's our home. People just want a name that we can all relate to. That's all. PeachParts.com we just can't relate to it.

TylerH860 04-06-2009 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160822)
What's the point in discussing it?
The name is fixed and WILL NOT CHANGE. You are beating your head against the wall! The discussion is over. There is no debate.

We are debating it because all of us are seeing that the site may FAIL because of it. We don't want that to happen...

Don't you see a problem here?

BodhiBenz1987 04-06-2009 12:28 AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but in the past two days, I've gotten just as much help from this forum as before. The members are the same. The format is the same. The words in the browser just don't bother me that much. Yeah, I can understand the feeling of losing tradition, and yeah, it's going to be weird when I tell people to try out the site "peachparts.com." But all the meat of the forum is still here, and I would hope it stays here. That's by far the more important part, to me.

And FWIW, I don't think it sounds gay. Just a little bit like a porn site. Who cares?

Bill Wood 04-06-2009 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860 (Post 2160843)
Don't you see a problem here?

No I don't. It seems to be a lot of wasted energy.

TylerH860 04-06-2009 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160858)
No I don't. It seems to be a lot of wasted energy.

Are you wanting to retire, and picked a horrible name as a convenient route to doom the site? That's the only way I can see you having no issue with this.

I'm interested in the stats of new members joining over the next several months. If it doesn't go down considerably I owe you an apology.

Right now Mercedesshop.com is on the front page of google with 10 other choices. After the domain changes for good, they'll see peachparts, and immediately pass over it thinking its a part sales site only, and may not even be related at all.

pawoSD 04-06-2009 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160789)
Guys, the domain name is not that big a deal.
The important thing is the content that is here and the members that contribute to this forum.

Unfortunately, I am not able to explain all of the details behind this change but it is what it is. The domain name had to be something that had absolutely nothing to do with Mercedes in any possible way. PeachParts is perfect in that respect. Let's move on.

This website will continue to be what it has always been. There is no plan to change anything but the domain name.

You must not do too much research on the importance of domain names to web business success. "PeachParts" is not going to attract the thing you're looking for: New Customers and forum members

That will become a growing problem as revenue and sales fall.......

Anyways....You already call the parts site fastlane....so....did the idea for "fastlaneparts.com" not enter the realm of possibility? And, it doesn't really have anything at all to do with Mercedes.

There are many names that are much better than "peachparts".

Why do you think so many companies and individuals have paid simply astonishing amounts of $$ for the right domain name? Because it really does matter and often determines the success of a site.

The domain name needs more thought than naming it after what you may have been eating at the time....

If it was changed to this, it can be changed again. The web is always changing, embrace it!

And, why did you only register the new domain for one year if you intend it to be permanent?

ForcedInduction 04-06-2009 05:41 AM

Yes, change is asap while its still recent and the MShop domain redirects are active.

Seriously, "peach" fun aside, we ARE concerned that the "peachparts" name will significantly hurt site traffic and new memberships. We all care about the foum and its success is in jeopardy with the new name.

lowriderdog37 04-06-2009 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody
The name to the site changed...and the new name seems pretty limp...

ok

awsrock 04-06-2009 09:23 AM

While it was a shock to me (although I am over it now), and I think there could have maybe been better names chosen, I really hope people don't leave the forum because of a name change..that would be pretty lame. It's the only thing that has changed :rolleyes:

JimmyL 04-06-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awsrock (Post 2161001)
While it was a shock to me (although I am over it now), and I think there could have maybe been better names chosen, I really hope people don't leave the forum because of a name change..that would be pretty lame. It's the only thing that has changed :rolleyes:

Look Dan, you and some others just don't get it!!
Our problem is with new members, the life blood of any business, internet or otherwise. We all know how to get here and what is active and archived on the forum.
Folks looking for Mercedes information, especially a forum environment are not going to give "peachparts" a second thought. "Oh, some poorly named parts selling outfit" will resonate in their head, then they're off to Benzworld for Christ's sake!!!
This forum needs support from folks buying parts, and new members I bet are a large percentage of Fastlane purchases. Sadly, we have developed a little buying savvy having done this awhile and realize who's parts are priced higher than others. ;)
Not to hop on you specifically Dan, you are just the latest to espouse the same position that is so contrary to what our real fears for the site are. :)
To summarize, we aren't concerned so much with the lameness of the name for name's sake, just that it won't direct new membership our way.
The owner said that he was bound by the new name, so we may just be stuck.....
I don't know how Google works specifically, but I'm told from numerous folks that moving off of a prominent location on page one is a disaster, one he's yet to realize......

::matthew 04-06-2009 10:14 AM

Although I think Peach is silly because, as far as I know, there is nothing to tie this forum, fastlane or their respective locations to the fruit, I don't have a big problem with it. There are plenty of successful sites out there with names that have nothing to do with the company. I think "parts" is the crappy half of the name. This place is a lot more than a parts supplier.

TheDon 04-06-2009 10:30 AM

IBTL

and mercedesshop.com still shows up as #5 for "mercedes forum" in the search query

"peach parts" is number two in the search query, when searching specifically for peach parts...

awsrock 04-06-2009 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL (Post 2161060)
Look Dan, you and some others just don't get it!!
Our problem is with new members, the life blood of any business, internet or otherwise. We all know how to get here and what is active and archived on the forum.
Folks looking for Mercedes information, especially a forum environment are not going to give "peachparts" a second thought. "Oh, some poorly named parts selling outfit" will resonate in their head, then they're off to Benzworld for Christ's sake!!!
This forum needs support from folks buying parts, and new members I bet are a large percentage of Fastlane purchases. Sadly, we have developed a little buying savvy having done this awhile and realize who's parts are priced higher than others. ;)
Not to hop on you specifically Dan, you are just the latest to espouse the same position that is so contrary to what our real fears for the site are. :)
To summarize, we aren't concerned so much with the lameness of the name for name's sake, just that it won't direct new membership our way.
The owner said that he was bound by the new name, so we may just be stuck.....
I don't know how Google works specifically, but I'm told from numerous folks that moving off of a prominent location on page one is a disaster, one he's yet to realize......

Ok, point taken :)
I see what you mean though.

compu_85 04-06-2009 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL (Post 2161060)
We all know how to get here and what is active and archived on the forum. Folks looking for Mercedes information, especially a forum environment are not going to give "peachparts" a second thought.

I agree 100%. While being forced to change our name sucks, we shouldn't compound the problem with a name that's not very descriptive.

-J

funola 04-06-2009 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160789)
Guys, the domain name is not that big a deal.
The important thing is the content that is here and the members that contribute to this forum.

Unfortunately, I am not able to explain all of the details behind this change but it is what it is. The domain name had to be something that had absolutely nothing to do with Mercedes in any possible way. PeachParts is perfect in that respect. Let's move on.

This website will continue to be what it has always been. There is no plan to change anything but the domain name.

I think I see it now. It was calculated and premeditated. Economy bad, sales down, fierce competition from other parts suppliers. The more the new name has nothing to do with Mercedes Benz, the higher the payment for the Mercedesshop.com domain name. Anyone else see it that way?

helpplease 04-06-2009 12:55 PM

I have tried to stay out of this and keep my opinion to myself but sorry to say this can't stand. I agree completely with everyone who said this new name not only sucks hard. But will all but stop business. I have referred numerous people to mercedeshop.com to buy parts and to go over the forums vast tomes of knowledge. I don't think anyone will take me seriously if I say "hey go to peachparts.com to buy and get info on your benz." For Gods sake it sounds like a porn site. And Yes you webmaster should care a lot about this. If you were looking for lets say parts for your computer and in the search function on google one of the entries was bannanacpu.com....would you buy parts from them? No no you wouldn't you would laugh at how stupid the name was and how it had nothing to do with computers and you would go to the next site.

pawoSD 04-06-2009 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola (Post 2161202)
I think I see it now. It was calculated and premeditated. Economy bad, sales down, fierce competition from other parts suppliers. The more the new name has nothing to do with Mercedes Benz, the higher the payment for the Mercedesshop.com domain name. Anyone else see it that way?

That may possibly be the case.....it wouldn't surprise me anyways.

I've noticed that fastlane doesn't seem to engage in too much "price competition"......I've always wondered how much that hurt business.....

Our webmaster doesn't seem too concerned with our qualms about the site name. Maybe you're right, and there is a big payout to be had for selling/transfering the Mercedesshop domain to Daimler AG.......who knows.

funola 04-06-2009 01:28 PM

I agree with everyone who thinks the new domain name Peachparts.com will kill this site over a period of time. Where is the next best site to hang out for tech info if you're into old MB's?

funola 04-06-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD (Post 2161235)
That may possibly be the case.....it wouldn't surprise me anyways.

I've noticed that fastlane doesn't seem to engage in too much "price competition"......I've always wondered how much that hurt business.....

Our webmaster doesn't seem too concerned with our qualms about the site name. Maybe you're right, and there is a big payout to be had for selling/transfering the Mercedesshop domain to Daimler AG.......who knows.

I'm sure it does not help them. Most people are loyal to their wallet, not to a discussion forum.

BodhiBenz1987 04-06-2009 01:40 PM

Google will turn up pages based on words on the Web page, so a search for "mercedes forum" should draw up this page regardless of the URL. I don't disagree with the assessment that the new name will be harder to "sell," but I wouldn't immediately call it a disaster as far as attracting traffic. The Internet is a squirrely world. Just ask the newspaper industry. All I'm saying is, although this is disappointing, and quite frankly, confusing, I wouldn't throw up my arms and say "There goes the forum!" right away, and I hope others won't either. I'm not saying don't be angry ... I'm just saying please don't leave, and please keep promoting the forum, even if you think people won't take the name seriously. You'd be surprised at what people will take seriously if they think it will save them money, especially now.

Maybe I'm just being overly positive about the whole thing, but what else are you supposed to do these days?

DeliveryValve 04-06-2009 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 (Post 2161265)
.....
... but what else are you supposed to do these days?


Support the forum by giving constructive feedback to ensure the survival of this forum for years to come.


It's all in the name... Even if it is just a domain name.

BodhiBenz1987 04-06-2009 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve (Post 2161269)
Support the forum by giving constructive feedback to ensure the survival of this forum for years to come.


It's all in the name... Even if it is just a domain name.

I didn't say nobody should give feedback ... I'm just saying if they won't budge on this new name, which seems to be the case, we should hang in there anyway. If the bottom falls out, we probably have enough intelligent and inventive people here that we could find/build a new empire. I nominate "frugalbenz.com.":)

On a side note, why does Daimler have a problem with "mercedesshop" but not "benzworld"?

curlytom 04-06-2009 02:32 PM

Obviously the owner just wanted to keep with his Georgian roots. If that was the case, may I suggest the Georgia State Flower; the Cherokee Rose for an improved Cherokeeroseparts.com?

The Georgia State Bird or the State Tree would also offer an improved domain name? brownthrasherparts.com or liveoakparts.com?

…or maybe the ol’ devil was thinking about these peaches when he came up with peachparts.com… :)


http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u...om/peaches.jpg

Skid Row Joe 04-06-2009 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860 (Post 2160863)
Are you wanting to retire, and picked a horrible name as a convenient route to doom the site? That's the only way I can see you having no issue with this.

I'm interested in the stats of new members joining over the next several months. If it doesn't go down considerably I owe you an apology.

Right now Mercedesshop.com is on the front page of google with 10 other choices. After the domain changes for good, they'll see peachparts, and immediately pass over it thinking its a part sales site only, and may not even be related at all.

Tyler has illuminated exactly what I have been thinking, Bill. I think he makes a lot of sense.

helpplease 04-06-2009 02:58 PM

I just don't understand how the webmaster can really think this is a good idea. Not only that but not listen to anyone. I am starting to think the idea of driving this into the ground is the intent. I know if I was about to do or had done something really stupid that would hurt my business I would want my customers to tell me "hey fix this now!"

daw_two 04-06-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2160858)
No I don't. It seems to be a lot of wasted energy.

I'm going to chime in on this subject. I understand everyone's frustration and there are a lot of various feelings on the subject.

Bill --- try to be patient with us; there's just a lot of pent up frustration and mixed feelings about the name change. In due time, the shock of the name (and change) will subdue and we will get back to the latest fix it problem on our old MBs.

In my previous marriage, I had a name "copyrighted". My ex hated every minute that I controlled it during our break up. I didn't want the name, but I did want to be treated fair in the break up.

Things will be okay, guys and gals. Trust me.



Now, who needs w126 parts? :D Oh, yeah, that goes under the Parts Discussion. Okay, I'll get some pics posted and start a new thread. The 300SDL parts car arrived today.

Yeah!!!


:)

awsrock 04-06-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 (Post 2161290)
I didn't say nobody should give feedback ... I'm just saying if they won't budge on this new name, which seems to be the case, we should hang in there anyway. If the bottom falls out, we probably have enough intelligent and inventive people here that we could find/build a new empire. I nominate "frugalbenz.com.":)

On a side note, why does Daimler have a problem with "mercedesshop" but not "benzworld"?

I agree. Again, I really hope that people don't leave because of this..where else will you go? At the same time, I understand the concern of not being able to attract newcomers with the new domain name.
If the webmaster really wants to let the forum go down, I'm sure many of us on there have the ability to take over..think of all the archives we have!! Starting over would be a gruelling process.

NoSparkNeeded 04-06-2009 05:42 PM

peach?
 
Well it does sound like a porn site. However just like the old commercial
said "parts is parts". Chicken parts, peach parts whatever. It's still
"the shop" to me :eek:

Bill Wood 04-06-2009 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daw_two (Post 2161369)
Bill --- try to be patient with us; there's just a lot of pent up frustration and mixed feelings about the name change. In due time, the shock of the name (and change) will subdue and we will get back to the latest fix it problem on our old MBs.

Understood.
Ever hear of the SARAH process? These are the typical steps people go through:
S = Shock
A = Anger
R = Resentment
A = Acceptance
H = Hope

That's what were going through, I know. It's just that I have a 4 month head start on you! I'm somewhere between the "A" and the "H" right now while several people here on the forum are somewhere between "S" and "R". Change is tough but, it will work out in time.

pawoSD 04-06-2009 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster (Post 2161488)
Understood.
Ever hear of the SARAH process? These are the typical steps people go through:
S = Shock
A = Anger
R = Resentment
A = Acceptance
H = Hope

That's what were going through, I know. It's just that I have a 4 month head start on you! I'm somewhere between the "A" and the "H" right now while several people here on the forum are somewhere between "S" and "R". Change is tough but, it will work out in time.

It seems more like you are in the DENIAL stage of how important a domain name is to the success of a given site. By "work out" do you mean that the site will fall to the last-visited list of these type of sites?

Everyone just wants the site to stay alive and be successful, the name of it is a key player there.

patbob 04-06-2009 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola (Post 2161249)
I agree with everyone who thinks the new domain name Peachparts.com will kill this site over a period of time. Where is the next best site to hang out for tech info if you're into old MB's?

Yeah.. peachparts.com's forums. Seriously. Unless folks are too insecure to hang out at an MB site named peachparts.com, its still going to be the best place for help.

Google search will take care of itself over time -- the domain name isn't the only factor in page ranking. Most people searching for hobbiest info realize that some of the best sites have unrelated names, brickboard.com being one example.

As for Benzworld, etc... maybe MB is targeting them too, but we just got the honor first because we're more successful and therefore more visible.

Scott98 04-06-2009 08:28 PM

Is there something you can do to associate peachparts.com with Mercedes info? That's your biggest challenge now. It can work. For example, pelicanparts.com is one of the leading sites for air cooled Porsche information. Rennlist.com is the leading site for water cooled Porsche information. Neither name has anything to do with Porsche. However, they have been around a long time and are well established. You've got to do something to associate the new name with Mercedes to make it work - be it advertising or whatever.

Scott

daw_two 04-06-2009 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSparkNeeded (Post 2161465)
Well it does sound like a porn site. However just like the old commercial
said "parts is parts". Chicken parts, peach parts whatever. It's still
"the shop" to me :eek:

Well, considering that we have this thread:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/185735-my-wifes-boobs-shaking-uncontrollably.html
and this one:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/185219-bounce-ometer.html

What are we? A bunch of old farts (and young guys) who get our jollies off working on old cars?:D

H-townbenzoboy 04-06-2009 09:02 PM

Look what I've got for sale, a peach pit, it fits ALL chassis MBs. Where it goes however is all up to you.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/...b43628.jpg?v=0
If yours needs this peach part, PM me for more info.:P

Skid Row Joe 04-06-2009 10:32 PM

You guys are being cruel, now. :rolleyes:

I'd lock this thread because of the negative feedback. Enough.....

H-townbenzoboy 04-06-2009 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 2161791)
You guys are being cruel, now. :rolleyes:

I'd lock this thread because of the negative feedback. Enough.....

So do you want the peach pit or not?;)

Bio300TDTdriver 04-06-2009 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-townbenzoboy (Post 2161838)
So do you want the peach pit or not?;)

Come on, you know by now that you will get more for that on EBay than on here. :D

DeliveryValve 04-07-2009 12:47 AM

I put a poll on OD. Please vote.

I did however forget the I don't care vote... If you don't care, just mention it in the thread.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/249512-do-you-like-name-peachparts-com.html

rhodes2010 04-07-2009 01:00 AM

Suggest alternative site names.
 
I agree with BodhiBenz that the name probably does not matter after
you have already established youself and have the CONTENT that this
site has. That is it's real asset and it's enduring value.

Google will point to this site on searches. The same way I found you all
a few years back.

And if the webmaster/site-owner chooses, they could claim a dozen
great web names and point them here.

At our businees we registered the names for 6 different versions of our
business name and basically have them all point to one main website.

Many large comapnies do the same thing.

So . I too will take a positive approach and continue to support Fastlane
and the site. Please join me.

And if you have a plate frame or bumper sticker let's change them.

Now - one last thing - How about a list of suggested site names that
might be possible when the next name change opportunity presents itself.
Or maybe to even have redirected to peachparts.com

I'll go first - I suggest:

germancars.com
germandiesel.com (too limited, this site is more)
foreigncarforum.com
germancarforum.com

Surely, using the word german can't be a conflict or violation.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 (Post 2161265)
Google will turn up pages based on words on the Web page, so a search for "mercedes forum" should draw up this page regardless of the URL. I don't disagree with the assessment that the new name will be harder to "sell," but I wouldn't immediately call it a disaster as far as attracting traffic. The Internet is a squirrely world. Just ask the newspaper industry. All I'm saying is, although this is disappointing, and quite frankly, confusing, I wouldn't throw up my arms and say "There goes the forum!" right away, and I hope others won't either. I'm not saying don't be angry ... I'm just saying please don't leave, and please keep promoting the forum, even if you think people won't take the name seriously. You'd be surprised at what people will take seriously if they think it will save them money, especially now.

Maybe I'm just being overly positive about the whole thing, but what else are you supposed to do these days?


jt20 04-07-2009 01:09 AM

Starshop.com ?


..not a trekkie reference!!

bgkast 04-07-2009 01:12 AM

Not available. :(

I still like fastlaneparts.com my self

rhodes2010 04-07-2009 01:51 AM

For all of you that want an easier way to invite your friends,
here are two other/alternate names that will take you here (this website):

www.mbpartshop.com

www.mbtechinfo.com


These names are registered and re-direct to this website and they sound
better and more like what we all have been saying.

So try it - open a new browser and type in www.mbtechinfo.com or
mbpartshop.com and you will end up here.

My thanks to the Webmaster for sending me these.
Although not sure how to answer your question of "what's the point".

The point is, these alternate names are more palatable for those
that think something is in a name.


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