Hmmm... when I did it before, I was opening and closing the caliper bleeder, but I don't really see how that would make a difference... maybe closing off the slave bleeder between allows less air to bubble in around the threads? Still just doesn't seem very likely.

I am actually in the East Bay, so I'm not all that far away, but I am fine continuing to fiddle with it on my own for now. I'll figure it out some day, maybe today!

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quick question for Charlie or anyone else who has bleed the clutch with the FSM back bleeding crack and pump method - how many times can we expect to crack and pump?

Just tried about 25 pumps and no difference in the clutch.

About to try the new slave cyl, just thought I would try to bleed it one more time.

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I believe the advice I got was, after hose clamping the prefilled bleed hose with fluid to the brake and slave bleeders you open both bleeders and just keep pumping the brake pedal slow and steady till all air is purged. No need to keep cracking and closing the bleeders.
Keep an eye on the reservoir to avoid a low fluid scenario which will just suck in more air.
When I bled mine the clutch pedal felt no different[minimal resistance ] but it worked fine

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1981 240D 143k 4 spd manual -SOLD

2004 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed 300k -still driven daily

Thanks for the advice. I actually tried this way as well. One time it didn't seem to do anything (when I tried a couple months ago), and then today when I tried this method (after the crack and pump method didn't work), all I got was foamy brake fluid in the line running from the caliper to the slave.

I think it was sucking in air from around the caliper bleed valve. Both the caliper and slave bleed valves were leaking some fluid around the threads. It ended up drawing air into my brakes, which I had to then bleed out. It is possible that I was pumping too quickly though.

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Well Iam not sure actually if the crack and pump was the sequence that did it for me. since I pressure bled from the top, tried to use the R/F caliper to slave. and pressure bleed from the bottom up.
When the thing finally decided to work, my wife was pumping the brake, and I was cracking the slave cyl. we did it maybe 6 or so times, I was getting frustrated with fluid dripping down on me from the bleed nipple. didn`t seem like any was going in, and it was all dripping on me.
so I tightened it down, crawled out from under the car and asked my wife to check the clutch. she said it felt firm.
so I got in the seat, started the engine (had the rear wheels off the ground) and put it in gear. pushed in the clutch and they stopped turning, WOW!.
So took it on a test drive.

Evidently the air bubble finally burped to the top. I don`t know.

I just drove 300 miles today to carson City, nevada over hwy 50 through South Shore (Lake tahoe) from sea level to over 7000ft and down the other side with out a problem.

Threaten your car that PNP is going to be the new owner and Iam sure she will decide to cooperate .

Iam wondering if it would be possible to take a slave cyl bleeder nipple, like off an old clyinder, and cut the end off so it would not close it off. If the end was flat and it was snuged down , then use a pressure bleeder or R/F caliper and brake peddle. It wouldn`t leak or suck air and might just be the ticket to pushing out the air. just a thought.

Charlie

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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

That is an idea. I have now replaced my slave, but have had the same result in trying to bleed (and pretty sure the slave was fine, now that I have taken it out and had a look at it).

I could take out the old bleeder valve, cut off the inner end just past the little hole that goes inside the slave, and then screw it in all the way and jet some fluid in there.

I guess the only problem would be replacing it with the proper valve to close it off with out leaking more air in. I don't know how much of a problem that would be if there was no pressure on the system when the proper valve was put back in.

I am suspecting, however, that the real problem is my clutch master cyl. I haven't found any fresh wet fluid anywhere around it, but there seems to be corrosion on the hard line from the master down, and the carpet seems kind of sticky on the back (hard to tell if it is just glue or old brake fluid, but it does feel a little oily/sticky).

One thing I do remember is that for a couple days before the clutch gave out, the pedal had a sort of "notchy" feeling near the bottom when you pressed it in. I wonder if this was the feeling of something about to give way in the clutch MC.

Also, I looked at the pedal, and it is spring loaded, so it will pop back up even if there is no pressure in the hydraulic system.

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Since the o-ring didn't work, you still need to fix the leaking via the nipple threads. You only want to open the bleed nipple maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn from closed, just enough for fluid to flow. If the nipple is loose and won't stay put on it's setting , take it out and wrap lots of teflon tape on the threads (don't block the hole). Maybe you also have a blockage upstream to the slave cyl? Push the fluid in slow and steady. Do not pump fast and hard like an ape! At this point (since you are having so much trouble), I'd suggest: one by one, crack each hose connection starting at the slave cyl and verify fluid is getting out as you do the back flush bleed. If you get fluid out at the slave, close it, crack the next connection at the fire wall and so on. I used a home made pressure bleeder (metal brake fluid container and hand bicycle pump) and didn't have any problems. Never tried using the brake caliper procedure (which I'll try next time) so can't help there.

ps, make sure your clutch peddle is in the up position while you bleed ( I'm not sure if it matters).

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

I don't think I have a blockage, because when I bled top down with a pressure bleeder (the first of my many attempts to bleed this thing), I had a steady stream of fluid coming out.

Perhaps I am opening the slave valve too much. I have been doing about 1/3-1/2 turn. I can try that and the teflon tape - but how do you get the tape off to close it up again without reintroducing air into the system?

I actually think that the problem is somewhere else in the system - it could be the clutch MC.

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Leave the teflon tape and just tighten the nipple down. Could very well be a bad MC (you don't need much of a leak to cause a lot of problems). Or could be a bad hose(s), hose connection. That's why I suggested pressure testing the system and find where it leaks and replace the bad parts. The other approach is replace everthing if money is no object

ps, when I had problems with my clutch peddle where it would drop to the floor over a day or 2 after bleeding. I had no problems bleeding, the clutch just would not stay. I had no external signs of any leaks. I replaced the slave cyl and problem fixed. The only sign of a leak was a slight dampness around the rubber boot. .

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

I did do a pressure test when I bled from the top down. I connected the pressure bleeder to the reservoir and pumped it up, watching the gauge for a minute or two - it didn't go down to any notable degree (just slightly, but I attributed that to a threaded fitting that connects the screw cap to the bleeder tank is very slightly leaky.

Then I opened the valve to bleed the fluid, and the fluid squirted out freely, so I know there was no blockage either.

I am going to order a new master. If it's not that, then it might be a trip to the indy, or my first ever dive into the insides of a manual transmission.

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Charlie which car got the trans? The 300D or the 300SD?

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1974 240D 3.0L 4(M) - 250K -OM617.910 + 300D FW + Rajay turbo power!
1977 6.9 3(A) - 84k

Negative on that, .....spring or not, the pedal will stay down if the system has enough air in it.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Hmmm, ok, I guess I haven't had that much air in my system then...

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Curtis, I installed it into the 300D.

so far about 400 miles on it, do get a vibration below 2100RPM. probably the point between eng. struggling to get going and turbo boost. stay above 2100 and it smooths out. still have some tweeking to do when we get back from this NV trip.

clutch works great, is a softer clutch than Iam use to.




Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Replaced the carrier bearing bushing?

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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42