Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-2009, 12:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
190D - doing steering and suspension

Greetings, eh?

I've got a 1989 190D 2.5 with 438000 km on the dial, and I have *no* idea if the struts/shocks, tie rods, ball joints, etc. have ever been replaced. What I *do* know is that the ride is shuddering like crazy and I'm getting all sorts of rattles where I didn't have them before.

When I had the Post-Purchase Inspection done (yes, I was that dumb about it), the dealer recommended a whole ton of replacements, which I didn't have done due to the sheer cost of getting the dealer to do them. When I had an alignment done a little while ago, the techs couldn't get the wheels to align to the recommended specs, and so they settled for an alignment that tracked straight (which seemed good enough a year ago).

So time to give my car (and me) a treat and replace some things, I think. But I have some questions:

1) I'm assuming that the reason the alignment couldn't be set to recommended specs is because the ball joints are shot. Would that explain the jitter I feel in the steering wheel when I'm idling (when the wheel's about 30 degrees off-center)? Should I also do the tie rods (left, center, and right)? Should I just replace bushings (I've never done this before) instead? If you buy replacement tie rod assemblies online, do they normally come with bushings or do you have to buy them extra?

2) I want to replace the struts and shocks on all four corners. I'm thinking Bilstein Comforts, as I'm not a hard-drivin' guy and this is not a hard-drivin' car. Bilstein Sports or HDs seem a little ridiculous, especially since I don't want to buy sport springs. Any other thoughts?

3) Should I replace the springs anyway? Will it make a great difference?

4) Should I replace the steering damper? $44, and I'm under there anyway... How will I know if it's worn? Should I replace it just due to its age?

I'm willing to do my own work and take time. I also have mechanic friends willing to help me if I need it. I also don't want to spend a ton of money. If I'm getting the parts online, it makes sense to me to buy everything I need at once to save on shipping. It also means I take the wheels off once and don't have to get under the front end multiple times. I definitely do feel that it's worth my time and money to replace what needs replacing, but there are limits, of course.

And to screw you up further, no I haven't done a visual inspection of the front end yet, so there could be worn parts lurking under there that I don't know about yet. I'll be doing that tomorrow. I acknowledge that I probably only know enough to be dangerous, but I've done a couple of other mechanical things before (replaced O-rings on my diesel injector pump, for one) and I'll be safe, smart, and follow my Mercedes shop guides to the fullest.

Any advice, gentlemen?

__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.

Last edited by tuxbeej; 05-04-2009 at 02:27 PM. Reason: added #4 about steering damper
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-04-2009, 10:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
A few quick thoughts...
You will need to buy/rent/borrow the special tool to remove the springs if you intend to change springs or control arms/bushings.
If you need control arm bushings and/or ball joints, you might as well look into buying complete control arms. They come with ball joints. They are so cheap on ebay that it isn't worth the labor to replace your ball joints or bushings yourself. I don't know about the ebay quality, though. Someone else? These may also be available through this forum's parts sites.
The comforts will probably suit you just fine.
__________________
1987 W201 190D

Last edited by JonL; 05-04-2009 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Added bilstein thoughts
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonL View Post
A few quick thoughts...
You will need to buy/rent/borrow the special tool to remove the springs if you intend to change springs or control arms/bushings.
Understood. Do I need a spring compressor if I just decide to change my struts/shocks? I've seen that "Wheeler Dealer" video of someone changing the struts/shocks on a 190E Cosworth without using a spring compressor and I figured that was the normal way of doing things.

Quote:
If you need control arm bushings and/or ball joints, you might as well look into buying complete control arms. They come with ball joints. They are so cheap on ebay that it isn't worth the labor to replace your ball joints or bushings yourself. I don't know about the ebay quality, though. Someone else? These may also be available through this forum's parts sites.
I didn't want the expense of replacing front control arms, as the last time I was on eBay, new ones were going for $125 each. It looks like there's a ton of $30-40 ones right now, so it may be worth buying used.

Also, I live in Canada, so cross-border shipping + taxes + duty can be a real killer. I'll have to get most of my parts in Canada. Shipping on one control arm is USD$52.50...

Quote:
The comforts will probably suit you just fine.
Excellent. Thanks.

Also, and I'll add this to the OP, should I think about buying a new steering damper too? $44 and I'm already under there anyway... How will I know if it's worn? Should I just replace it because of age?
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.

Last edited by tuxbeej; 05-04-2009 at 06:11 PM. Reason: no such thing as a 190"D" Cosworth *rolls eyes*
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
My comments are all addressed to the front suspension. I redid mine completely not long ago. I have done little to the rear, so I cannot give you much guidance there.

You don't need the compressor if you are just going to replace the strut/shock.

Regarding the control arms... With your mileage (kilometerage???) the bushings are almost certainly due for replacement. Ball joints are a chronic weakness on these cars, so they probably should be replaced as well. Price the bushings and ball joints, then factor in that neither is a particularly easy job to replace, and the whole control arm assembly (that comes with new ball joints and bushings already installed) gets far more attractive. $125 is a bargain considering the amount of work saved. Of course the shipping and duties might change the equation. I would not (I WOULD NOT!!!) buy used.

On the steering damper, you can unbolt one side and push it in and out. If it has no loss in resistance, it's still good. It's easy to change after the fact, so you can decide later.
__________________
1987 W201 190D
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2009, 06:08 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonL View Post
Regarding the control arms... With your mileage (kilometerage???) the bushings are almost certainly due for replacement. Ball joints are a chronic weakness on these cars, so they probably should be replaced as well. Price the bushings and ball joints, then factor in that neither is a particularly easy job to replace, and the whole control arm assembly (that comes with new ball joints and bushings already installed) gets far more attractive. $125 is a bargain considering the amount of work saved. Of course the shipping and duties might change the equation. I would not (I WOULD NOT!!!) buy used.
Cool. I wasn't really prepared to trust a used part I couldn't inspect first.

$125 per control arm, plus $70 shipping. That's USD$320 - CAD$375. Add GST 5% = CAD$393.75. And that doesn't include any customs duties or handling charges. The eBay seller says they come "as in the picture", which is pretty low-quality but does show a ball-joint. I can't tell if there are bushings.

I'm on-board with your suggestion of replacing the ball joints *and* bushings, but if I don't buy the complete package, I imagine that'll mean pulling the control arm off, pressing out the bushings, pressing in the new bushings, removing the ball joint (you can use a pickle fork for that, correct? Or do you need some sort of extractor?), and then pressing in the new ball joints...

That'll also mean compressing the spring, since I'm changing the control arm. Guh. This is getting complicated.

Think there's any reason to replace the spring as well?
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
I had one broken spring, so I replaced mine. I don't know that it is common for them to break. If your ride height is OK, I'd probably leave them.

Ball joints... I guess you can use a pickle fork to get them undone from the knuckle (I didn't on mine... I think I used the "strike it on the side with a big-ass hammer" method). The ball joints themselves then must be pressed out of the arm, and new ones pressed in, properly oriented.

The bushings get pressed in and there is a special tool required to swage this little aluminum sleeve. I improvised something, and was less than pleased with the outcome.

OK, $200 a piece for the arms... how much are the ball joints and bushings by themselves with all the freight and taxes and what not?

You will need to compress the springs to do the bushings (or arms). You do not need to compress the springs to do the ball joints IF you have (or can improvise) the tools to remove and install the ball joint on the arm while it is in place on the car.
__________________
1987 W201 190D
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
I'm surprised no one else is chiming in here with advice.... Anyone?
__________________
1987 W201 190D
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonL View Post
I had one broken spring, so I replaced mine. I don't know that it is common for them to break. If your ride height is OK, I'd probably leave them.
I looked underneath with a flashlight and stared at them for a few minutes. No serious cracks. Maybe I should wipe the road dirt off them and have a better look. I'm planning on replacing a strut mount, as the dealership listed it during my inspection. One but not the other, so I figure there's something wrong with it.

Quote:
Ball joints... I guess you can use a pickle fork to get them undone from the knuckle (I didn't on mine... I think I used the "strike it on the side with a big-ass hammer" method). The ball joints themselves then must be pressed out of the arm, and new ones pressed in, properly oriented.

The bushings get pressed in and there is a special tool required to swage this little aluminum sleeve. I improvised something, and was less than pleased with the outcome.
OK, so this'll require more than what I've got tools for, I'm guessing. Best to have the pressing done at a shop.

Quote:
OK, $200 a piece for the arms... how much are the ball joints and bushings by themselves with all the freight and taxes and what not?
Ball joints = $27 x 2 = $54. The picture shows them as a pair, but I have no idea if ordering "1" gets you the pair.
Control Arm Bushings = unknown. The site I'm checking only lists them for the rear. I can get a "Control Arm Repair Kit" for $72. Then I'd need two - one for each arm.
Hmm.. there are "Tie Rod Bushings" listed, though. Should I be selecting those? They're $12.39 each.

The site offers free shipping for orders over $75.00. I'm ordering $800 worth of parts, so I qualify.

(Offtopic: I know mentioning the name of other parts sites is verboten on here, but since the site I'm at is for Canadian buyers, would it be okay?)

Quote:
You will need to compress the springs to do the bushings (or arms). You do not need to compress the springs to do the ball joints IF you have (or can improvise) the tools to remove and install the ball joint on the arm while it is in place on the car.
I may ask my mechanic friend to have a look at the car to see if he can finagle a way to do the ball joints without removing the control arms. If he *wants* to remove the control arms and we can do the pressing ourselves (I have no idea if his auto shop has a press), then that may be worth my while. Since this car is my only car (though I don't drive daily), I don't really want to take the long way around. I suppose I could do one side on one weekend, then the other side next weekend if I needed to.

This is all really helpful info, too. Thanks very much for helping me out.
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:30 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
Also, this is the YouTube link to the Wheeler Dealer episode. At about 7 minutes is where he discovers the wobbly track rod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBFZ7u3msqE&feature=related
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-08-2009, 03:11 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
Talked to my mechanic friend - he does not have a press. I think I'm going to buy complete control arms, then. The prospect of unbolting the old part and bolting in the new part does seem worth it. Plus, I can keep the old control arms and put in new bushings/ball joint if I ever need to do this again (that is, if they're still in good condition).

I'm going to consult my WIS manual and figure out the correct order in which to do everything. I'll try to remember to take pics and post a write-up on the experience to the DIY section if everything goes as planned. ^)_(^

If anyone has any further advice, I'd love to hear it.
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-08-2009, 03:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
When you replace the arms, remember that the bolts through the bushings (the bolts that attach the arm to the chassis) must not be tightened until the car is sitting on its wheels and at normal ride height. You'll also be in serious need of a wheel alignment, so plan your work so the alignment shop is the first stop after you finish.

Good luck! If you rent/borrow/buy the proper spring compressor, this job should go nice and smooth.
__________________
1987 W201 190D
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-08-2009, 05:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
I bought one of these:
http://www.princessauto.com/tools/automotive-tools/auto-repair/8023104-strut-spring-compressor?keyword=spring+compressor

but now I'm thinking that I should've bought one of these:
http://www.princessauto.com/tools/automotive-tools/auto-repair/2990132-coil-spring-compressor?keyword=spring+compressor

Neither are the Mercedes spring compressor with the discs, but the Coil Spring Compressor (second link) appears to do the same job. I may head back to Princess Auto and see if I can find the proper tool (and maybe pick up a spreader just in case).
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-08-2009, 06:21 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
The first tool will absolutely not work. The coil spacing is too close together to get the hooks in. Plus those types have a nasty habit of sliding around on the coils after the spring is out so you are left with a banana shaped half-compressed coil just dying to jump free of its restraints and remove your head. No joke. Compressed coil springs store a LOT of energy, easily enough to give you a fatal injury. Do not screw around with them.

The second tool *might* work, as it has the same principle as the MB tool. The MB tool is very carefully designed to fit in the coils and compress the spring relatively evenly. I don't know if you'll be able to sneak the hooks of that second tool into the spring. I do know that the first tool is a non-starter.

Good luck!
__________________
1987 W201 190D
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-08-2009, 11:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 42
I was thinking of using the first type, but putting both compressors on either side of one spring, then compressing them both a little bit at a time until I've got it far enough out. But if it won't fit between the coils, then it's a non-starter.

I picked up the second type today and I'll give it a shot. I'll be extremely careful with it while I'm extracting the spring - no tossing it around the garage. I'm quite fearful of the fact that it could kill me or maim me. To that end, would it be a good idea to (slowly) loosen the compressor out of its spring once its out and on the floor of the garage, or should I just leave it in there and get my work done?
__________________
1995 E300D, 253000+ km - babied by PO, let's hope I do the same...

1989 190D 2.5, 450000+km - first MB I've owned. Bought at 396000km, and now parked.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxbeej View Post
I was thinking of using the first type, but putting both compressors on either side of one spring, then compressing them both a little bit at a time until I've got it far enough out. But if it won't fit between the coils, then it's a non-starter.

I picked up the second type today and I'll give it a shot. I'll be extremely careful with it while I'm extracting the spring - no tossing it around the garage. I'm quite fearful of the fact that it could kill me or maim me. To that end, would it be a good idea to (slowly) loosen the compressor out of its spring once its out and on the floor of the garage, or should I just leave it in there and get my work done?
Regarding the first type... the method you describe is the correct method for using them on springs where they will fit. You always use both together -- 180 degrees apart on the spring. The problem I nearly always have with them is that once the spring is compressed one of the two hook/screw assemblies likes to slip around the coils to nest along side the other assembly, and the spring bows out to a scary extent. It's academic since it won't work anyway on the MB.

I wouldn't release the spring tension after removing it from the car unless your work is progressing slowly or you are installing a new spring. The less handling of the compressed spring the better IMO. If you are really concerned take the spring and put it outside the garage as long as no one can get near it. I had a spring let go on me once when I was installing struts on a Peugeot. The upper spring seat was on the spring and I was maneuvering it into place when it popped out of the compressor (the first type you've shown). I felt a breeze where the spring seat flew past my face. I started looking around for the part, and after about 5 seconds or so I heard it land on the sidewalk across the street.

__________________
1987 W201 190D
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page