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  #1  
Old 05-08-2009, 08:52 PM
sasquatchgeoff's Avatar
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Head Gasket Failure or Warped Head? (Pics)

Block:



Bare head:




This is the head gasket laying on top. Notice the oil around the #1 and #5 cyl. - oil was there when head was pulled

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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

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Last edited by sasquatchgeoff; 05-09-2009 at 02:04 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2009, 09:42 PM
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You can't really expect anyone to give you a diagnosis from a bunch of photos.

Send the head to a competent machine shop (Metric Motors), spend about $1000. for all the required parts and the testing to ensure the head is not cracked.

Then, you know that you've got.

Otherwise, it's just a crapshoot with a bunch of old parts that are not to specification.

I did it with the SD and it runs fabulous. Best money ever spent.
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  #3  
Old 05-08-2009, 09:51 PM
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You should always check any head for warpage when removed. A feeler gauge and a really straight straight edge will usually do.

For what it is worth there does not seem to be a big warpage issue with these heads. Better that way as allowable removal of any material from them is very limited.
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2009, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
You can't really expect anyone to give you a diagnosis from a bunch of photos.

Send the head to a competent machine shop (Metric Motors), spend about $1000. for all the required parts and the testing to ensure the head is not cracked.

Then, you know that you've got.

Otherwise, it's just a crapshoot with a bunch of old parts that are not to specification.

I did it with the SD and it runs fabulous. Best money ever spent.
Thanks BC - just dropped the head off at the machine shop today - well-reputed here in PDX - all the MB shops use them. He will pressure-test it, go over it, and call me on Tuesday. I also left my camshaft to be polished as well - mild scoring on the forward bearing surfaces -

I was certainly intrigued to see no obvious notice of breach in the gasket - of course my next assumption was warpage.

Head was removed due to oil in coolant. However, no noticeable coolant in oil.
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #5  
Old 05-08-2009, 10:01 PM
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Don't forget, the oil pump on a 617 pushes 100+ psi; while the coolant system maxes out at 14psi.
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  #6  
Old 05-08-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
You should always check any head for warpage when removed. A feeler gauge and a really straight straight edge will usually do.

For what it is worth there does not seem to be a big warpage issue with these heads. Better that way as allowable removal of any material from them is very limited.
Thanks Barry - since there are no obvious signs of breach in the gasket, then the other potential issue would be a crack, and I have tried to not even breathe a word of that possibility...

When breaking the torque on the headbolts, some of the more forward bolts on the intake side seemed to loosen much easier than the others. Maybe an indication of bolt-stretching and subsequent warpage?
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #7  
Old 05-08-2009, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpler=Better View Post
Don't forget, the oil pump on a 617 pushes 100+ psi; while the coolant system maxes out at 14psi.
This is a 602.911, but I think the pressure specs are similar to the 617 ...
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #8  
Old 05-08-2009, 10:11 PM
ForcedInduction
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Oil/coolant on the gasket means little. There will always be some left in the system after you've drained everything. Unless there is a crack/gap/burn in the gasket then it probably wasn't the issue (FYI, I can't see the pictures here at work so don't scream at me if there is a break pictured... ).
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  #9  
Old 05-08-2009, 11:48 PM
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SasquatchGeoff, what's the name of the shop? I used to know their name but have forgotten.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #10  
Old 05-08-2009, 11:54 PM
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Bearing Service in Portland. MBI uses them, among others.
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #11  
Old 05-09-2009, 12:18 AM
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Thanks! That's the shop I couldn't remember despite some recent name dropping. I've noticed that MBI doesn't mind referring you to some of the shops they send their work out to.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2009, 12:28 AM
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Yeah Rich at MBI said they would be glad to replace my H/G for $2400. He said that if the head needed rebuilding, Bearing Service would do it, if the timing chain needed replacing he would do it etc,etc - my chain stretch was 3.5* - I wonder if he would have considered that enough to "need it?" That was the kind of risk I weighed when trying to decide to do it myself or not. I didn't want to take the chance of being left out of any of the decisions when it came to my work car. I am a salesman, so the car gets some heavy highway miles. Going through the passes on a weekly basis requires a high level of confidence in the machine I am sitting in. I replaced my chain, but not the tensioner rail, in spite of small signs of wear, because that rail's surface is made of unobtainium - the most durable substance known to mankind.

All in all, at this halfway point in the project I have no regrets. Rich and Sig both were very helpful in giving me confidence enough to tackle the "mother of all shadetree chores." Most of all though, it was Brian Carlton and others on this great forum
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327K on 1986 W201, 602.911, 722.414 2.5 190D ("The Red Baron")
139K on 1993 W124, 104.942, 722.433 2.8 300E ("Queen")

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/...0bb92d3c_m.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1325284354

Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater.
- Albert Einstein

take a walk down memory lane...
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2009, 11:23 AM
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Yes, Sig's the guy I'd talk with every time I had questions. He didn't seem to mind about offering advice. I took a transmission from a 124 to a transmission shop Sig recommended because that's where they would have sent it out anyway.
BC's a good guy too along with this forum. In the 6 years of owning Mercedes Benzes, I've never had to take any of the cars in the shop except for alignments. This forum has saved me a lot money.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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