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  #16  
Old 09-01-2009, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldan44 View Post
So if I take the fronts and swap them today that pretty much will eliminate the tires from the equation, right?
The objective of the exercise is to swap the front tires left to right (and vice versa) and see if the problem moves to the opposite side.

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  #17  
Old 09-01-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldan44 View Post
...So aligning these cars doesn't require ant fairy dust?
No fairy dust required to align our cars properly, just a good shop that uses the required spreader bar...
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  #18  
Old 09-01-2009, 01:43 PM
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Where does this "magical" spreader bar go?

Does anyone have a photo or diagram for it?

I'm going to be doing an alignment down the road and want to make sure I do it right.
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  #19  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:32 PM
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What adjustment(s) other than toe-in are possible in the W123 during an alignment?
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
What adjustment(s) other than toe-in are possible in the W123 during an alignment?
Camber and caster.
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  #21  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:38 PM
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Update

I did the following:

- checked front bearing play with dial indicator. >.001" play measuring per the FSM. Wheels moved equally freely once calipers were backed away, no dragging calipers.

- swapped front tires, left went to right, right went to left

- adjusted steering box 1/4 turn out, remeasured and I now have approx. 28mm deadspot in the center of the steering. This is close to the FSM 25mm spec.

Went for a highway cruise tonight on my way back home. Still pulled a bit right, but seemed better. It was definitely NOT the opposite of what it was before, ( which would indicate the fault to be in the tires)

I'm out of ideas on what to check...what else is there?

Other than this little pull the car drives just magnificently. Definitely worth the trouble of doing the front end work.

dd

PS Looking for a straight, level, flat, road around Boston is not easy.
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Last edited by dieseldan44; 09-01-2009 at 11:43 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-02-2009, 05:52 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Since you said it has from time to time pulled to the left I suspect this could be normal behavior. A benz has a load of caster. This makes it track well and corner well but on a crowned road it will pull strongly to the low side. Take it on a road with crown and drive first on the right then on the left. If it pulls equally more or less to the left it may be fine.
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  #23  
Old 09-02-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Camber and caster.
Toe-in is adjusted by turning the tie rods. On which suspension components are the adjustments for camber and castor? Thx.
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  #24  
Old 09-02-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote "The adjustments I tried to estimate counting threads were way, way out before I took it to the shop."

Dieseldan, was it the tie rod ends threads that you were counting?
Did it pull to the right (or not) after the new front end, before the alignment? May I ask what the new front end cost parts and labor? I just had my car "inspected" by Firestone for $19.95 and they quoted $3000 for suspension work.
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  #25  
Old 09-02-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Toe-in is adjusted by turning the tie rods. On which suspension components are the adjustments for camber and castor? Thx.
the camber is adjusted by turning the cam in the LCA, the castor is adjusted by turning the shaft of the guide rod.
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  #26  
Old 09-02-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Quote "The adjustments I tried to estimate counting threads were way, way out before I took it to the shop."

Dieseldan, was it the tie rod ends threads that you were counting?
Did it pull to the right (or not) after the new front end, before the alignment? May I ask what the new front end cost parts and labor? I just had my car "inspected" by Firestone for $19.95 and they quoted $3000 for suspension work.
It was about $700 in parts not including the tires. Note, I had to buy new LCA's for $190 each due to extensive rust on mine.

So for normal job, its about $500 for OEM parts.

The labor for me was free...since I did it (my lower ball joints were okay).

dd
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2009, 05:46 PM
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Similar front end rebuild, mine tracks straight

I did a complete front end rebuild, I think with about the same repairs as dieseldan and tried to be scrupulous about setting all the replacement parts back to FSM "default" spec since everything was new/replaced and any old settings wouldn't matter.

Repairs done: new LCA bushings, new brake support and bushing kit on the LCA, new ball joints, shocks, UCA, torsion bar bushings (firewall and UCA), tie rods, idler arm, steering damper and drag link. I also rebuilt/replaced the seals in my steering gear.

I plan on getting it aligned by the dealer since I know I'm neither that lucky nor that good, but on my first test drive today it tracked straight with a centered steering wheel.

I didn't torque the LCA, the UCA, the upper shock, or any torsion bar bolts down until I had weight on wheels and I bounced the car a few times prior to final torquing.

Camber setting using eccentric bolt: hash mark at 6 o'clock
Caster setting using brake support rod: 14 mm from edge of nut on ball joint to brake support rod
Toe using tie rods and drag link: tie rod length = 345 mm; drag link = 477 mm.

I made these measurements using a metric tape measure. I do not pretend that this is by any means an alignment but is simply setting the basic components at the factory default so the shop can then fine-tune them.

I did not use the "lock out bolt" on the steering gear when I re-installed my steering wheel and initially eyeballed it off by two teeth on the steering coupling. I could tell I was not centered when I got everything together and adjusted by moving the coupling. I suppose this may change again after it gets aligned and they ensure the steering gear is no-kidding centered when the wheels are straight ahead but right now the hash mark on the Pittman arm is 90 degrees to the steering gear case, so it's close.

One interesting note: when I replaced the torsion bar bushings on the firewall and let the bar "self-center" between the new UCAs on its loose bushings, it settled into a position about one-quarter inch to the left from the old position, using the old wear marks from the paint on the bar as a reference. This was weight off the wheels, loose firewall bushings, installed but not torqued UCA bushings and steering straight ahead. When I lowered the car it kept this "new" position.

Question/suggestion: could a mis-adjusted torsion bar cause dieseldan's more/less consistent "pull" in steering and would it show up in the alignment?
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2009, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak View Post

Question/suggestion: could a mis-adjusted torsion bar cause dieseldan's more/less consistent "pull" in steering and would it show up in the alignment?
Yak,

Funny you should mention this. PO had the torsion bar replaced due to it breaking from rust.

How could I re-adjust it? Could it somehow have been put in wrong? When I had both UCA's out it moved freely up and down.

The car does seem to consistently track right still. Its as twalgamuth said, it definitely follows the crown in the road very closely.

Im going on a 650 mile road trip tomorrow to NE PA, on some actual flat roads. That will tell a lot...

dd
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #29  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldan44 View Post
Yak,

Funny you should mention this. PO had the torsion bar replaced due to it breaking from rust.

How could I re-adjust it? Could it somehow have been put in wrong? When I had both UCA's out it moved freely up and down.

dd
I don't know if the torsion bar could cause the steering problem, but I would speculate that it could add a slight left/right push based on a spring force from the metal. That's pure speculation, since I'm trying to figure how that moment arm would get translated from the torsion bar through the UCA, into the steering knuckle. Someone more experienced in suspension or steering may have a better answer.

I think it'd be pretty obvious if it were installed "wrong" since it's either right side up or upside down. The curve on the bar should form a small dip in the wheel well instead of a small hill.

As far as adjusting, mine basically came when I replaced the bushings at the firewall. The passenger side is easy, the driver's side is beneath the brake booster.

When the frame geometry was loose and the car was on jack stands I tried to reinstall the new bushings into the same position as the old bushings. When I started to snug down - but not fully torque - the brackets on the firewall, I noticed the wear pattern from the old bushing to the torsion bar was about one-quarter inch off (wear pattern = polished portion of bar from friction/motion on old bushing).

I double checked to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong, but every time I let it settle to a neutral position with the UCAs installed it came back to about the same spot. Since the old components were so obscenely worn out, I assumed that the old torsion bar position had also shifted based on the old worn components. The new position was the new neutral spot based on new components.

I centered the wheels, lowered the car, bounced the front suspension at each corner a few times like I was testing the shocks, and then torqued everything down.

If you describe your torsion bar as moving "freely up and down" with the UCAs out but you didn't loosen your brackets on the firewall, maybe the bushings there are bad.

Like I said, I don't know if this contributes to your steering pull, but since we've just done similar repairs it is one more thing you might check.
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  #30  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:10 AM
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when you are saying torsion bar, do you mean antisway bar?
I don't think these cars use a torsion bar... that's a dodge thing...

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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