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  #1  
Old 09-25-2009, 07:49 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SE Mich
Posts: 3,284
What can be done, short of the obvious?

While I was sick, a guy working on my car installed another auto trans because the one I had planned to use no longer would shift into third gear, despite his best efforts. He is very competent.

He proposed to use a 300D non turbo to replace the 240D 722.117.

Since the install, the car's shifting seems to take an awful long time for third, despite flooring it and waiting for the trans fluid to warm up.

The car is safe to drive (right now, it's having some other issues, but I had originally planned to keep it for my son, now I'll sell it as extra). However, I love the feel of my 722.117 attached to my 240D. The 240D is peppy for one of the NA diesels, and the trans shifts crisply and decisively. I am concerned that the long shifting into third will lose the sale.

I always believe that the performance of the car is what sells it, in addition to certain niceties. I plan to offer the buyer a complete other color-coordinated MB leather interior if it will help to sell the car, because I am short on space and the guy who is letting me use space in return for other favors is occasionally getting testy and wants me to move the car, which has also leaked AT fluid on his driveway (which I had to pay to get cleaned asap.).

Long story short:

1. would a 722.117 torque converter be any smaller, turn faster and impact the pump and the shifting speed? I'm theorizing here, based on MoPar parts.
2. What about modulator replacement? Supposedly this modulator can't be adjusted further.
3. What about different size vacuum line?


I have unearthed a 240D transmission, used and purportedly working, but I hesitate to insist that this one be installed since the other job really isn't doing it for me.

All suggestions are welcome, extra cookies and gold stars for the best ideas.

Thanks,
S

PS Results of my mountain climbing radioactive nude stress test revealed next Wednesday evening. PG-13 rating.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Last edited by strelnik; 09-25-2009 at 07:50 PM. Reason: errata
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2009, 07:04 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,069
81 views, no ideas...

Well, I don't think there are any differences in the TCs on any of the 4 bolt transmissions, so I don't think that will help.

There may be differences in the valve bodies. If you have the inclination you can consider swapping those if you have the old one.

Other than that, besides fiddling with the bellcrank, I don't know....

Rick
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2009, 09:44 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by strelnik View Post
While I was sick, a guy working on my car installed another auto trans because the one I had
planned to use no longer would shift into third gear, despite his best efforts. He is very competent.

He proposed to use a 300D non turbo to replace the 240D 722.117.
strelnik,

I owned, and recently retired a '79 240D with the 722.117, I'm almost
certain. Its <722> on the floor of my shop, so I can double check.
When I bought the car it had a broken tailshaft mounting housing,
which I replaced; so I did a LOT of research, at the time, to ensure the
model number.

I AM certain that I had "your" exact problem after re-installing the
re-housed transmission
. I fre- -aked a bit, thinking it was something I'd
missed in the re-assembly of the governor components.
There are quite a few shuttles and pistons in the tailshaft, and it would
be easy to get it wrong. I fretted.

It would almost never shift into 3rd around the city, winding the old
engines "little heart out". I chased and read every thread
I could find ... and eventually dived into the vacuum system , based
upon that huge thread called something like "the vacuum system is
the most important part of your transmission
" or something like that.
Its 30? pages or so, and been opened a bunch of times. The search
button is your friend.

It was FIXED by
1) disco-ing the remaining vacuum system parts
so that I could carefuly tune the vacuum dashpot on the fuel
pump to the transmissions shift pattern, and
2) playing with the SIX different possible orifices
in the vacuum line to get the shift point to where I thought it "should be",
and
3) adjusting the governor once the above "profile" had been developed,
4) carefully bringing "other" vacuum components, like the heater, back online;
watching and testing for changes in the transmission's shifting.

Guess what? I found two "new" vacuum problems in the heater circuit!

I must add; the car had a correctly configured vacuum system at start,
with all known leaks plugged. I think that this disconnecting circuits> action, when combined with aging in the
transmission and vacuum pump, gave RISE to the transmission problem.

The 722.117 was never broken, it just needed a "new state of tune".
The governor works with the vacuum pump, and needs a "timed" rise
in vacuum to enable it to do a "proper" shift.
You can effect this "rise time" by changing the orifices, changing the dashpot
setting, changing the system "loads" of other components -- or ALL THREE!

When I cut the car up to scrap it, replaced by two N/A 300D's, I saved that transmission, as it is the
BEST performer of the three! By merely changing a $2 orifice, I can induce the problem you
currently have .
This understanding came with a fair amount of pain and playing with the system.

This is NOT a reflection on your mechanic; he gets paid, and in most cases, it is
demanded of him/her to "make it like it was -- at the factory".
Rather, it is knowledge gained by gaming the system settings to get the transmission to do WHAT YOU WANT it to do
-- which many mechanics NEVER have the time, or customer patience, to do;
unless they are also an owner of the same vehicle, with similar age and configuration.

Hope this helps.

--frankb
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--frankb

1982 300TD 617.912 <NLA> . 1975 2002 E10-EFI . 1976 914c6 . 1983 MG LMIII <NLA>. 1988 Montero / 616<NLA> . 2001 TLS . 2005 Saab 9-5 Wagon
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2009, 10:39 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SE Mich
Posts: 3,284
Frank,
Thanks for your reply, which I am studying seriously. I may e-nmail you if I need more info.
Thanks again.
__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Last edited by strelnik; 09-26-2009 at 10:43 PM. Reason: spilled Cheeze-Whiz on the keyboard
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2009, 10:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DFW area (north side)
Posts: 1,288
Insert a needle valve from a model airplane fuel system and you can fine tune the vacuum without using the orifices.
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Charles
1983 300D, bought new, 215k+ miles, donated to Purple Hearts veterans charity but I have parts for sale: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-cars-sale/296386-fs-1-owner-83-mb-300d-turbo-rebuild-parts.html
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2009, 12:27 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SE Mich
Posts: 3,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr from Texas View Post
Insert a needle valve from a model airplane fuel system and you can fine tune the vacuum without using the orifices.

Thanks Charles can you elaborate, either in the forum or by message? Needle valve from what? A few more details, please? I will do everything short of spending months working on this, pnce I get it started again. Now the electrical system is gone. Checked the relay 80 amp fuse and it's ok, next will be the terminal ends and the battery itself.
Thanks,
S
__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2009, 02:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DFW area (north side)
Posts: 1,288
Email sent.
Also, do a search for needle valve as there are other related posts.

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Charles
1983 300D, bought new, 215k+ miles, donated to Purple Hearts veterans charity but I have parts for sale: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=296386
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