Many of us have used ULSD without additives for years. If it truly caused a problem, don't you think we would have been inundated with threads about IP failures over these past 2-3 years?

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'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I read a study comparing lubricity of various additives. By far the additive with the most lubricity was B20. I began running straight diesel after reading how little the $20/gal additives helped. (The injection pump on the 24 valve Cummins is notorious for problems.) So far, the SD and Ram are going fine.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Diesel lubrication is measured with the HFRR test method which tests the wear scar diameter. Fuel injection equipment manufacturers have recommended a HFRR wear scar diameter number of 460 microns or less.

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'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I now have over 70K miles on straight ULSD without any problems. The current fuel meets the ASTM standards, don't worry about it.

The only thing I've noticed with ULSD is shorter life of my fuel hoses, especially the injector return hoses.

I premix 12 oz of two cycle oil and 2 oz of Soltron (I had a biological growth issue) to every tank of ULSD. ULSD is all I can find locally - no biofuels at the pumps. I keep one or two small bottles of my premix in my trunk. I must say that the car also idles smoother and my filters last longer.

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Charles
1983 300D, bought new, 215k+ miles, donated to Purple Hearts veterans charity but I have parts for sale: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-cars-sale/296386-fs-1-owner-83-mb-300d-turbo-rebuild-parts.html

Saying diesel doesn't lubricate anything in the pump makes no sense. Chemically diesel fuel is essentially just really really thin motor oil. If the diesel isn't lubricating the pistons of the pump, then what is?

Sulfur doesn't add any lubrication, however it has been documented that the processes used to remove it from diesel reduces the lubricating properties of the fuel. The fuel distributors add lubricity improving addatives to make up for the lost lubrication - along with other addatives to reduce the gelling temperature, etc. If you trust the distributors to never forget the addatives and/or never skimp on the amount they add, then feel free.

Personally, working for a company with one of the largest diesel fleets in the country, I've seen enough screw ups by the fuel distributors to know that I don't want to count on them doing it and doing it right every time.

I also strongly advocate biodiesel as the best of addatives for increasing lubrication to the fuel. Can't buy it locally? That means that there is no one locally making it and therefore very little competition for WVO. Its easy and cheap to make. Collecting oil isn't that hard or time consuming either - or at least it doesn't have to be. I get 45-50 gallons a month from one restaurant, and I only have to drive 15 miles out of my way to stop by twice a month and pick up 5 or 6 of the 4.75 gallon "cubies".

Another local guy and I have formed our own little biodiesel co-op. We each supply our own oil, I supply the methanol (the most expensive ingredient) he supplies the lye, and the electricity, and puts in the time to process the oil into biodiesel (he has the processor in his garage). So my fresh bio costs me about $1.80 a gallon, and his costs him $.75 + a little electricity and some time. Right now I'm mixing mine with D2 60/40 (making B40) during the cold weather to make sure there are no gelling problems, but as temps warm up I'll be increasing the bio percentage until I hit 100% when the low temps are staying above 50 degrees...

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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown

Actually sulphur did aid lubricity by changing the chemistry of the fuel. This is not debateable but a pure scientific fact. In fact, it may be the flip side of the same coin you mention by "scrubbing" the fuel of sulphur.

At any rate, indeed BioD is the king of lubricity. If it is not available, I've used Howe's "Meaner Cleaner" with good result. The Stanadyne is a very good product and a great cetane booster. The PowerService products don't seem to have the same chemistry or result.

I hope all disel fuel sold in the U.S. has a bioD content soon. It would make too much bloody sense.

We have a college student in our co-op working two pizza/wing joints, hence WINGAS. The dude provides 60 gallons a week in WVO, which he himself prefilters ( the dumpster gets the dregs) and we are swimming in feedstock ( and not brewing at 15 degrees).

Find a college kid driving a TDI VW working pizza joints and give him free fuel!

Both my loose clearnace engine 95 and the tight new 97 ran MUCH better on B100. I was actually quite surprised at the 97 which eaks out better milage with B100, contrary to most. Yet, I bet if I did a compression test, I'd find very good cylinder sealing. Plus its quieter, plus I dig the sweet smell.

Any mix such as B50, and the exhaust smells just like those old Cox cars and planes we had as kids running mineral oil.

Anytime you make a 48 yr old dude think he's 12, tis a beautiful thing!

I'm with you on making all diesel fuel for sale in the US a bio blend, Wingas. I had an idea on that score that I wonder if anyone else has ever proposed.

We spend tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) planting and maintaining the right-of-way on both sides (and the medians) of hundreds of thousand of miles of roadway in this country. We plant grass and other forms of vegitation (like scotch broom, and Kudzu) to prevent erosion. We spend all this money to mow it and maintain it, and what do we get back? Nothing.

There are varieties of oil seed plants that will grow just about anywhere with very little cultivation or tending and produce a crop at least once - and if the weather is good twice - a year. Why not plant oil seed crops along that 50 foot strip of right-of-way on both sides of the road (and the median where there is one)? For little or no more work or cost than what we are spending now to maintain the grass and plants we could grow and harvest millions of bushels of oil seed crops that could then be sold at a discounted price to biodiesel producers.

Any money generated for the state by selling the crop would all be profit since we have to spend the money to maintain the right-of-way anyway. By selling it at a discount to biodiesel producers it would have the same effect as the government subsidy that just expired - it would drive the cost of biofuel down.

Seems like a total win-win to me. Almost no additional cost to maintain the right-of-way, profit from the crop goes into the government coffers, biodiesel producers get feedstock at a lower cost, and biodiesel users get affordable fuel. Where's the downside to this idea?

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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown

Which equipment manufacturers or more specifically what injection systems (inline, common rail, direct)? Is it the same for all? I'm specifically looking at what was the recommendation back then with Bosch inline pumps. Either way, there is no standard for lubricity (that I know of) in diesel fuels. We just know its less do to the processes of removing the sulfur.

I quickly glanced at a Stanadyne white paper in which they say ULSD (laboratory grade) has sufficient lubricity, but once measuring commercially available (retail from the pump) ULSD the results were all over the place.

...because the addatives aren't put into it by the fuel producers at the distillary. Like I said, they are added by the distributors. And there is very little quality control or oversight of who adds what or how much. The addatives are expensive - up to 10 or 15 cents per gallon. Since most distributors only make about 5% profit on each gallon, skimping on addatives is one way to fatten their bottom line. I'm not saying that all or even most do, but you know damn well that SOME do. Otherwise the results of testing retail pump diesel wouldn't be "all over the place".

The main reason the addatives aren't added at the point of production is that the addative chemicals have a much shorter shelf life than the base fuel does. A lot of fuel is stored for months after being produced, and if they added the addatives when it was produced, most of them would have degraded by the time the fuel reaches the retail pump. So instead the addatives get added by the distributor shortly before the fuel is delivered - so that the fuel is "fresh" when it gets to the point of retail sale.

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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown

Amen brother !! When you go into the injection pump shops they have signs saying no warranty on parts unless additives are used in fuel . At least the few around here do. The tech also said our older mercedes systems are more tolerant due to the limited amount of seals. Either way I have been using shaeffer 2000, a gallon cost 30.00 and treats 2000 gallons. synthetic their web site goes into details. I have used raycors performance additive and noticed a difference but at 9.00 a pint (pint treats 100 gallons ) she only gets this when shes been really good !!

Once again if the techs who see these pumps every day say somethings up I'll take their word for it. They make less on the additives than on the pump repairs .

Kind of like the tommy boy movie "you can stick your head up the cows ace or just beleive the butcher "

I Still would like to hear from someone who works on the service station pumps and see what there failure rate is . I wonder if their repairs increased as well ?

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Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

what brand are you using ?the supertech contains detergents according to this msds chart.I wouldnt use this brand because of this.I read in a diesel magazine that the two cycle could increase milage one or two mpg at a 100:1 ratio.if i can find some oil without detergent or additives i might just run some.

http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/24970_1.pdf

...You'd have to propose it to those in Government who seem to be educated beyond intelligence.

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1981 300TD "The Green Lantern"
1980 300TD
1983 300D Euro "China Cat"

I am using SuperTech. What is wrong with detergents?

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1993 W124 300D 2.5L Turbo, OM602.962
2000 Chevrolet Cavalier, 2.4L DOHC
2002 Ford Explorer, 4.0L SOHC
2005 Toyota Prius, 1.5L

http://www.fuelly.com/sig-us/40601.png

I was wondering the same thing. Most major fuel brands do whole advertisement campaigns about the detergents in their gasoline. So, why would it be a bad thing in diesel fuel?

Besides, how much detergent is there in the 2 stroke oil? 1%, maybe - probably less. So you mix it 100:1 with fuel and now its concentration is .01% (1/1000).

At that dilution I don't think cow piss would hurt one of these engines if you could keep it from separating from the fuel!

__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown