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  #1  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:00 PM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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New disaster ... jackport bent?

My 87 300D has had jackport rust which has really worsened recently. I had planned to get the bodywork done, for whatever ungodly price it will run me, after I finished the brakes and flex discs so I can drive it to the body shop. The frame is basically solid, and the jack supports looked fine. I went to jack up the rear today to do the brakes and as it was going up (using the hand crank) kind of heard a loud noise and felt the car shift downward. I didn't see anything noticeably wrong ... i.e., nothing punched through anything or broke off. But then I looked closely, and it appears the entire jack support had shifted down and outward. Has this happened to anyone else? What the &%*^ happened? I can see up inside that hole and the jack support looks normal as does the frame it attaches to. But something is wrong. I can't jack up the car now, and I'm so frustrated I can't even express it. I should never have let the car get like this. This car is my favorite thing in the world and now everything is going wrong with it.


I don't really have to do the rear brakes ... I did the fronts and the pedal is squishy, but if a bleed fixes that, should I just drive this to a body shop? Or is this not the panic situation I'm turning it into?
Sorry to whine. My non-car life isn't going too well right now and I'd really like my "friend" back.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:27 PM
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That support member, "H-member", around the jack tube is a structural piece tying the jack tube to the outer rocker (at the top and bottom) and depending on location front a-pillar or other structural member. The fact that it has shifted down and out is not good, can you move or wiggle it, is it still attached inside the rocker?

As far as the brakes, what did you do? Mushy brakes are usually a sign of air in the brake fluid or boiled fluid, did you bleed the brakes?
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwpowere36m3 View Post
That support member, "H-member", around the jack tube is a structural piece tying the jack tube to the outer rocker (at the top and bottom) and depending on location front a-pillar or other structural member. The fact that it has shifted down and out is not good, can you move or wiggle it, is it still attached inside the rocker?

As far as the brakes, what did you do? Mushy brakes are usually a sign of air in the brake fluid or boiled fluid, did you bleed the brakes?
Yes is is still attached, but I can't move it. I can sort of wiggle it, but not so that it moves profoundly ... it feels like it's still on there strong ... just crooked.

I repacked the front wheel bearings and put in new pads. I did crack the bleeders to push the pistons back so maybe somehow air got in. I was going to flush the whole system anyway, but one of the rear bleeders is broken off ... hence trying to jack up the rear. I haven't touched the rear brakes yet, though, so I'm going to bleed the fronts tomorrow so the car is at least drivable.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:50 PM
okyoureabeast's Avatar
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Oh goodness. Do you have a floor jack by chance? I finally invested in one and it makes jacking up the car a dream and a half.

The ultimate in car working nirvana would be a hydraulic lift, but only one can dream.
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Going back to the original post: "Can you get the vac to blow instead?" No. Vacuums are low pressure so they by nature "suck" and nature abhors them.
1984 380SL
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okyoureabeast View Post
Oh goodness. Do you have a floor jack by chance? I finally invested in one and it makes jacking up the car a dream and a half.

The ultimate in car working nirvana would be a hydraulic lift, but only one can dream.
I could put the floor jack under it, or a bottle jack, but I'm a little worried about the structural integrity. While things aren't great now, I think they'd be a lot worse if a car fell on me.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:16 AM
okyoureabeast's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
I could put the floor jack under it, or a bottle jack, but I'm a little worried about the structural integrity. While things aren't great now, I think they'd be a lot worse if a car fell on me.
No silly sam, jack the car up by the differential and put the bottle jacks under the subframe bushings. There's a little hook that I rest the jack heads on. Leave the floor jack under the differential as a back up.

You should have more than enough clearance to work on the rear breaks. If you don't then you're doing it wrong

Edit: Oh geeze I didn't see that it was the '87. I thought it was the w123. I want to guess that you can still jack the car up my the differential but i am just not familiar with your vehicle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak View Post
Going back to the original post: "Can you get the vac to blow instead?" No. Vacuums are low pressure so they by nature "suck" and nature abhors them.
1984 380SL

Last edited by okyoureabeast; 01-12-2010 at 12:26 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:35 AM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okyoureabeast View Post
No silly sam, jack the car up by the differential and put the bottle jacks under the subframe bushings. There's a little hook that I rest the jack heads on. Leave the floor jack under the differential as a back up.

You should have more than enough clearance to work on the rear breaks. If you don't then you're doing it wrong

Edit: Oh geeze I didn't see that it was the '87. I thought it was the w123. I want to guess that you can still jack the car up my the differential but i am just not familiar with your vehicle.
Hmmm ... the same may be true of the w124. I knew you could jack it up by the diff, but was unaware of the subframe jackpoints. I'm guessing it's in my FSM, or someone else can chime in. If that's the case, I can focus on the other stuff and then worry about the bodywork. In all honesty, now might not be a bad time for the bodywork anyway. That way I'll have it all nice and ready to go for spring.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:40 AM
okyoureabeast's Avatar
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Yeah I find my best work is done late at night, but see if the subframe bushing tale holds true. I would be interested to know.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak View Post
Going back to the original post: "Can you get the vac to blow instead?" No. Vacuums are low pressure so they by nature "suck" and nature abhors them.
1984 380SL
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:47 AM
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Ugh, it isn't in my FSM, at least not that I can find. It's probably in my E-Class Owner's Bible, but that got lost when I moved out of my townhouse.
__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:49 AM
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Well I say jack it up by the differential and put the jack stands under the bushing. Then move the trunk and see if anything moves... other then your two dead 80s era prostitutes .

Dave Morrison had it highlighted in his guide for w123 axle replacement which my indy had previously told me to jack the car up using a floor jack with.

Just make sure you chock the front wheels. When I did my axles I was so scared of the car rolling onto me I put my two wheel chocks in the back and these huge half pieces of wood in the front. I'm just petrified of my car falling onto me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak View Post
Going back to the original post: "Can you get the vac to blow instead?" No. Vacuums are low pressure so they by nature "suck" and nature abhors them.
1984 380SL
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:52 AM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okyoureabeast View Post
Then wiggle the trunk and see if anything moves (other then your two dead 80s era prostitutes ).
I moved them into the 240D while I do this work on the 300D.
__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:54 AM
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Is that the only jack point in that condition? If not you are going to need to seriously consider if the car is terminal with respect to rust.

Essentially with that area you’ll need to go all the way to the inside wall of the rocker channel box because the jack point tube is no longer structurally secured to it. The effort to stop the rusting and rebuild that area is all but impossible to do correctly without cutting out almost the entire rocker area and replacing it with new metal, then all the repair has to be sealed with something like Wurth Cavity Wax Aerosol 500ml – 0891081 or something similar to prevent it rusting from the inside out, and you’d need to similarly rust prevent, seal and repaint the exterior of that repair. That is a job that will be many hundreds if not a thousand dollars. Not to mention the guys doing a repair like that will have to secure the chassis in a frame jig to keep it straight when they cut all the rot out because the rocker channel box is a major structural member of these Uni-Body cars.

The best thing you might do is to chop out the worst, weld in enough supporting steel to fix the jack tube in place, scab some sheet metal to take place of the rocker sections that are gone. That way you can accomplish a quick and dirty way to restore the function of the jack point. Then get a set of plastic lower cladding that you can cover the rockers over with. That way you wouldn’t have to worry about inspections if you have them where they are.

You could always buy a gallon of epoxy and get a hundred pounds of sand, mix up a batch of epoxy, mix in as much sand as you can to form a mortar, then get the jack tube in place and pack the area around it with the epoxy/sand mix. Do that a couple times and fill in the area around the jack tube and extend the packing into the area of the rocker channel that is still structurally sound. That will secure the jack tube and restore its function for about $100! You can finish the exterior to look just like the rest of the rocker and paint it up to match. The block of epoxy rock will last about 500 years!

If you had caught it ten years ago you could have used something like this! But the entire front and bottom side of your rocker is gone looking at your picture!

http://cgi.ebay.de/Reparaturblech-Schweller-Wagenheberaufnahme-W124-NEU_W0QQitemZ380188016610QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item5884f8bfe2

P. S. if you really love your car, and I think it's clear you do, you should start looking for someone down south with a nice 124 with a dead engine/tranny that you can transplant your power train into eventually. I picked up a rust free example from a forum member for a couple hundred after the engine and tranny was cannibalized from it. The only way you’ll be driving one in 10-15 years is if you build your own, good examples of diesel 124 cars are growing fewer and further between every year. You can keep an eye out and jump on a good one once in a while if you’re ready cash in hand sometimes, there’s was one sold out of Atlanta a month or two ago here on the forum.

Last edited by Billybob; 01-12-2010 at 01:05 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:56 AM
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Careful though. Isn't is Bodhi that has some type of crack in your diff support area??
Are you sure that something up inside the support area bent, or could it have been the jack forcefully seating itself fully into the jacking hole where maybe it wasn't all the way down in there?
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2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2010, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyL View Post
Careful though. Isn't is Bodhi that has some type of crack in your diff support area??
Are you sure that something up inside the support area bent, or could it have been the jack forcefully seating itself fully into the jacking hole where maybe it wasn't all the way down in there?
Yes, this car has a crack in the subframe, although it's pretty small and hasn't gotten worse over the years. I guess that's something else I should consider, though.

It may have been the jack shifting, but the jackpoint is definitely not right.
__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2010, 01:28 AM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
Is that the only jack point in that condition? If not you are going to need to seriously consider if the car is terminal with respect to rust.

Essentially with that area you’ll need to go all the way to the inside wall of the rocker channel box because the jack point tube is no longer structurally secured to it. The effort to stop the rusting and rebuild that area is all but impossible to do correctly without cutting out almost the entire rocker area and replacing it with new metal, then all the repair has to be sealed with something like Wurth Cavity Wax Aerosol 500ml – 0891081 or something similar to prevent it rusting from the inside out, and you’d need to similarly rust prevent, seal and repaint the exterior of that repair. That is a job that will be many hundreds if not a thousand dollars. Not to mention the guys doing a repair like that will have to secure the chassis in a frame jig to keep it straight when they cut all the rot out because the rocker channel box is a major structural member of these Uni-Body cars.

The best thing you might do is to chop out the worst, weld in enough supporting steel to fix the jack tube in place, scab some sheet metal to take place of the rocker sections that are gone. That way you can accomplish a quick and dirty way to restore the function of the jack point. Then get a set of plastic lower cladding that you can cover the rockers over with. That way you wouldn’t have to worry about inspections if you have them where they are.

You could always buy a gallon of epoxy and get a hundred pounds of sand, mix up a batch of epoxy, mix in as much sand as you can to form a mortar, then get the jack tube in place and pack the area around it with the epoxy/sand mix. Do that a couple times and fill in the area around the jack tube and extend the packing into the area of the rocker channel that is still structurally sound. That will secure the jack tube and restore its function for about $100! You can finish the exterior to look just like the rest of the rocker and paint it up to match. The block of epoxy rock will last about 500 years!

If you had caught it ten years ago you could have used something like this! But the entire front and bottom side of your rocker is gone looking at your picture!

http://cgi.ebay.de/Reparaturblech-Schweller-Wagenheberaufnahme-W124-NEU_W0QQitemZ380188016610QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item5884f8bfe2

P. S. if you really love your car, and I think it's clear you do, you should start looking for someone down south with a nice 124 with a dead engine/tranny that you can transplant your power train into eventually. I picked up a rust free example from a forum member for a couple hundred after the engine and tranny was cannibalized from it. The only way you’ll be driving one in 10-15 years is if you build your own, good examples of diesel 124 cars are growing fewer and further between every year. You can keep an eye out and jump on a good one once in a while if you’re ready cash in hand sometimes, there’s was one sold out of Atlanta a month or two ago here on the forum.
1 - This is the worst jackpoint. The left front is also pretty bad. The right side isn't nearly as bad, but you can see rust starting to bubble around the holes.
2 - I would drop $10,000 on this car in a heartbeat. I don't care what it's worth. I know that's crazy, but people have spent money on dumber things.
3 - I know this sounds like a fifth-grader, but I don't want another car. If this one can't be fixed, I'd probably not want anything to do with cars anymore at all. It would make me too sad to be reminded.
__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--369,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--14,500 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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