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  #76  
Old 02-14-2009, 01:31 PM
sd300td's Avatar
huh?
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Diego
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Slightly off topic but...

my w123 has more road feel than the w203 which is cool. Having said that, the c class sedan would run circles around the wagon in most if not all driving situations. Been in both and had to make emergency type maneauvers. I trust both nearly equally; I'd give the w203 a slight nod except that I typically drive the thing 15-20 mph faster than the w123...
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1982 240 D, 308,000 - 321,127 miles (sold)
1982 300 TD,166,500 - 226,000 miles
1998 E 320, 120,000 - 144,000 miles
2005 C 230 K, 26,000 - 77,000 miles (sold)
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  #77  
Old 02-14-2009, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
If your 123 was scary on snow you have a tire problem, imho. They are very well balanced. Add a hundred pounds in the trunk and only 4x4s will beat you off the line.

IN snow, of course skinny tires with good tread work the best and those low profile very wide tires which grip so well on dry pavement? They are the worst on snow or water.

Weight over the drive wheels and good tread are the keys.
Well, I have a set of 195/70/14 Falkens on it that are less than 1 year old and have great tread. Not exactly snow tires, but great rain shedding tread (which is much more often needed in this area than snow traction).

As far as weight in the trunk, I usually try to avoid carrying much, but at the time I had a brand new engine stand back there that weighs somewhere in the 50-75 pound range. I also had both my boys in the back seat - about another 120 extra pounds.

Still didn't get traction enough to keep from breaking 'em loose every time I put any real pressure on the go-pedal. On the other hand, the temps were well down into the 20's and it was a very wet snow that instantly compacted into ice under your tires.

For my money, when the snow falls, the Benz stays home and I drive the Jeep...
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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  #78  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:23 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 32,330
a turbo motor and automatic is a poor combination on snow and ice. a stick is much more controllable on snow for an experienced driver.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #79  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:32 PM
rcounts's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
a turbo motor and automatic is a poor combination on snow and ice. a stick is much more controllable on snow for an experienced driver.
Yeah, I can buy that.

Mine has a bit of the "afterburner" effect going on once the turbo starts to spool too. I need to do a valve adjustment, timing check, and probably an ALDA adjustment to get the throttle response back to being more linear.

BTW, kinda off topic, but how hard is it to swap the ALDA from my old IP onto the one in my car? The one on there now has never been tampered with and the one on my old motor has already had the screw-protecting "cannister" removed. If its an easy swap I'd rather leave the one that is still original as it is and swap on the one that has already been modified.

Can I just remove the 4 screws and swap the top cap from one to the other, or would I need to remove the entire ALDA assembly?
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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  #80  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:33 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
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I find the W123 in the 240D incarnation similar to a tank in the snow. I also run 195/70-14's - Michelins - the same size as rcounts. But in snow in any car, mashing the throttle is not a common practice unless I am in a parking lot doing donuts in the snow, trying to break the rear wheels loose. The brand of tire is not the issue.

The slickness on snow comes from the tire compressing the snow or ice enough to make it momentarily become a liquid directly under the contact patch. The liquid water as an interface to the ice beneath and rubber tire above makes for a near zero friction condition. The colder it gets the less water is made, until in really cold weather, no liquid forms. At that point snow and ice are not that slick and you can maintain pretty high speed around turns and can actually effectively brake.

Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #81  
Old 02-14-2009, 11:18 PM
bgkast's Avatar
Rollin' on 16s
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcounts View Post

Can I just remove the 4 screws and swap the top cap from one to the other, or would I need to remove the entire ALDA assembly?
It unscrews at the base.
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1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

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  #82  
Old 02-15-2009, 12:31 AM
rcounts's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgkast View Post
It unscrews at the base.
I just looked at a couple of posted pictures and now I see that what I was picturing in my head as screws in all 4 corners of the top plate aren't screws at all - or if they are they're the end of screws that are put in from the bottom.

So, Bgkast, do you have an pictures or instructions showing what to unscrew to remove the ALDA? Is it mounted on a center "stem" with a locknut or what?
__________________
1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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  #83  
Old 02-15-2009, 02:54 PM
fruitcakesa's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
I find the W123 in the 240D incarnation similar to a tank in the snow. I also run 195/70-14's - Michelins - the same size as rcounts. But in snow in any car, mashing the throttle is not a common practice unless I am in a parking lot doing donuts in the snow, trying to break the rear wheels loose. The brand of tire is not the issue.

The slickness on snow comes from the tire compressing the snow or ice enough to make it momentarily become a liquid directly under the contact patch. The liquid water as an interface to the ice beneath and rubber tire above makes for a near zero friction condition. The colder it gets the less water is made, until in really cold weather, no liquid forms. At that point snow and ice are not that slick and you can maintain pretty high speed around turns and can actually effectively brake.

Jim
I run 195/70/14 Nokia snow tires all around with 200# in the trunk and my experience in the MB on snow is similar with the additional advantage of gently backing off the throttle till the wheels grab and continuing on my way. The slow throttle response and low speed torque of the 240 is really helpful in slick conditions.
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1981 240D 132k 4 spd manual http://www.fuelly.com/smallsig-us/40338.png
Finally got the clutch bled!
2004 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed 272k

Last edited by fruitcakesa; 02-15-2009 at 02:57 PM. Reason: more info
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  #84  
Old 02-22-2009, 01:55 AM
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Lehigh Valley PA
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Blizzaks will help

A set of Bridgestone Blizzaks would help snow traction in a 123 as they did in my R320.
My R class is now pretty unstoppable in nasty winter storms as opposed to white-knuckle scary at 35-40 mph in snow last season. Of course I can go faster than a RWD 123 due to the 4Matic, the ABS, ESP and stuff. I have to keep an eye on the speedo so I don't go over the posted speed limits of 45-55 mph during blizzards
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Lehigh Valley PA USA
73 Olds 88, 72 MB 280SE, 78 Datsun 280Z, 71 T-Bird, 72 Olds 88, 83 Nissan Sentra, 85 Sentra, 73 230.6, 91 Integra, 83 300SD, 91 Volvo 940GLE wagon, 84 300SD, 95 Subaru Legacy L wagon, 02 Mountaineer, 91 300TE, 08 Murano, 2007 R320CDI 4Matic 52K, some Hyundai, 2008 BMW 535xi wagon all gone... currently
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Last edited by Robert W. Roe; 02-22-2009 at 02:00 AM. Reason: polishing
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  #85  
Old 07-19-2009, 06:35 AM
Sev's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
I would suggest the W123 chassis defined the class of vehicles that evolved into what are now known as high performance luxury sedans. Jim
LOL. except the w123 was neither high performance nor luxury, even by MB's standards. recall the S-class 450sel 6.9. Much nicer interior appointments, and the 6.9 engine speaks for itself. If any Mercedes of the 70's/80's defined luxury and performance it would either be the w116 or the r107, not the w123.
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  #86  
Old 07-19-2009, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
I can't believe that I'm here, reading a thread about 123 handling. I love to drive a 123. I feel confident and in control, but IMHO, come on, it's not a good handling car. When I think of a good handling car, my four wheel drive pickup probably handles better.

Don't get me wrong, I might be the biggest 123 fan in the world, but they're not known for their handling capabilities.

Just my opinion,
fully agree with this comment
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  #87  
Old 03-24-2010, 10:26 PM
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Location: Dallas, TX
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I've never driven a W123 but I own a W114 250CE in the UK. You can really throw that car around in town. It's like a giant mini in that respect (the original mini, i have not driven the new ones). I'm not sure how well they handle at high speed but I have taken my 250CE to 115mph and it was rock solid. This was in the mid 90's and my other car was an 89 BMW 318i which did not feel as chuckable.

At the limit, you should expect any car with with IRS to be more predictable then a pickup with a solid beam rear axle because of unsprung weight. Pickup trucks have big engines and big axles and turning them too quickly would be like trying to spin a dumbell with your wrist too quickly, Force takes over.
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Al

Check out the W114, W115 enthusiast website.
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  #88  
Old 03-25-2010, 06:34 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 32,330
I agree. There was never a pickup built that will out handle a 123.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #89  
Old 05-26-2012, 03:12 AM
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From personal experience, I greatly prefer the handling and ride of the W116 (especially the 6.9 with hydropneumatic suspension) over the W123. The W115 I had was also better but not as good as the W116. The W124 had the best handling of any E-class I've driven though; too bad it's significantly uglier.
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