run some aTF to clean the ip, car sluggish then not reving under load...Long story - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Olivier · #1 11-02-2010, 04:25 PM

Hello all,
The Story:
First I run on wvo and I want to say that its not the problem but it might be related as some crud might have been dislodge in the IP.
I first put a bit of ATF in the tank to clean the injectors/ pump etc... as the old tale says.
On the same time I emptied the CAT.
Shortly after the car was not as swiftly as it use to be? It was odd...
All pointed to the cat removal, lack of back pressure etc... I was gutted ( like the cat) as I thought it would have been better for the engine.
Anyway, after awhile, I got a spare CAT reinstalled. To my surprise, the car was still the same, meaning, never like before...
I was again gutted...
It use to kick in strongly, now it was like a soft take off... Granny style...
I run the car on strait dino, expensive. Still the same as on wvo.
I tweaked the wastegate. Same .
I play with the advanve on the IP, up and down. No change, that was too odd, the car was the same no matter the fuel or the advance?
I injected high pressure air into the line backward, I swapped the lines fed and return, I changed the fuel filter, clean the pre filter, same... The tank strainer has been removed long ago , then this is not it.
Back on WVO, I decided that perhaps I needed to put some ATF strait into the IP, not in the tank, then I run about a litre of strait ATF.
The car went worse... Sob Sob... Now under load it can barely rev over 3000, while on park it can go over 5000.
After the ATF, I run 2 bottles of professional injector cleaners strait and left the pump sucking in this over night.
In the morning, it was the same.
I did a Molly purge pro line strait as well, reving up and down.
Same...
Then I decided to go for more ATF ( as it was the bother, I thought it might clean the blockage) but this time under load, I snuggle a bottle of ATF under the hood and went on the highway, on strait ATF I was getting highter rev, 4000+, but as a litre run fast under load it didn't last long and I had to stop on the merge. EEK!
Also all fuel lines are squeaky clean.
The bother is under load as the car studder and cannot keep up...
What I think might have happen is that the cleaning property of the ATF did dislodge some crud in the IP and now its blocking a hole or something.
I am going to try and do the delivery valves this week ( if its a dry weather)and perhaps by next week I'll remove the pump ( but this is daunting me a little, thanks to GSXR tho for all the info, really helpfull, see below)
Injection Pump Removal on OM606 for Bosch Service

Anyone has any idea?
I am thinking of getting 5 litre of atf and putt it in the tank, that should last enough to run the car on load for a wee while...
Reckon?
Thank you.
Olivier

sd300td · #2 11-02-2010, 07:02 PM

ooh boy.

Olivier · #3 11-02-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sd300td

ooh boy.

indeed...

Fredmburgess · #4 11-02-2010, 09:09 PM

No doubt you would have mentioned this, but it isn't showing any codes (ie; check engine light on), is it? Sounds like it may just be in "limp" mode with the computer holding everything back. Have you tried clearing codes? I'm assuming of course that you've got the same connection under the dash (right side over there, I suppose) to plug in a code reader. If not I think you can clear codes by disconnecting the battery but you'll need to do a search as I don't know the procedure. Couldn't hurt to give this a try before pulling things apart!

47dodge · #5 11-02-2010, 09:03 PM

atf has friction modifiers in it, may not be to friendly to the ip.

C Sean Watts · #6 11-02-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47dodge

atf has friction modifiers in it, may not be to friendly to the ip.

Quite so. ATF can be down right hostile to the IP.

My personal, not to be actually done, stance....used motor oil is better for the IP than ATF.

W124 E300D · #7 11-02-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47dodge

atf has friction modifiers in it, may not be to friendly to the ip.

No it doesn't.

ATF is hydraulic oil + detergent + anti-foaming agent.

That's it.

ATF will not damage an injection pump.

vstech · #8 11-02-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W124 E300D

No it doesn't.

ATF is hydraulic oil + detergent + anti-foaming agent.

That's it.

ATF will not damage an injection pump.

it won't help it either. it's not as thin as diesel. mix it 50/50 with acetone and you'll get basically the same as marvel mystery oil. but straight aft is not a good thing.

whunter · #9 11-02-2010, 10:33 PM

Lack of power/shuddering.

On the E300 the most common issues are:

* Bad fuel pre-filter/O-ring.
* Bad E300 Turbo Diesel Plastic injection pump lines, OM606.962
* Bad/leaking shutoff valve.

= air leaks into the fuel system..

The other suggestion in your case (using WVO) is a plugged fuel tank strainer/screen.

.

Olivier · #10 11-03-2010, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Lack of power/shuddering.

On the E300 the most common issues are:

* Bad fuel pre-filter/O-ring.
* Bad E300 Turbo Diesel Plastic injection pump lines, OM606.962
* Bad/leaking shutoff valve.

= air leaks into the fuel system..

The other suggestion in your case (using WVO) is a plugged fuel tank strainer/screen.

.

Hi Wunter,
Pre filter and Orings are OK
Lines and Orings are new ish
Shut of valve seems to be OK as I took it off awhile ago and it seemed to be OK.
I have no bubbles in the system.
I removed the tank strainer long ago, then theis can't be it.
This is why I am puzzled...
Cheers.

Olivier · #11 11-02-2010, 09:08 PM

I thought it would lubricate and clean the inside properlly?
Friction modifier, humm... What's that beast? Something might have seized you reckon?
Its odd ( I know, I say this a lot there) as when I first try it was about 10 ml in 60 litres of oil, barely nothing, but defenitly there was a difference after a wee while. This is why I was thinking it clean some cruds that went blocking something?
EEK! Reading not friendly and hostille... Sound like Troubles...
Cheers.

Olivier · #12 11-02-2010, 09:13 PM

Hi Fred, I am holding the codes reading as MB want 50 pounds for this... I find its extortion....
No engine light or nothing, all the same.
Why would it be only under load and why is it getting worse with more ATF?
I could disconnect the battery for a wee while. This is an idea.
I'll do that in the morning.
Cheers.

babymog · #13 11-02-2010, 09:29 PM

I've never heard of the ATF being detrimental to the IP, it is designed for hydraulic pumps, which the IP is, as well as other parts of the AT. It isn't a fuel, but it is well filtered, I doubt that a small amount at first had any negative effect on the IP.

However, I don't understand why you continue to feed the car ATF, it should have diesel in it. Whether the combination of alternate fuels and the ATF has caused a problem, perhaps. I suppose that it is as possible that something that has built up over time in the system has now moved down the line to a point where it is causing problems, possibly even something chemically incompatible with the ATF causing congeling or another issue.

If I were in your situation, I'd check the ALDA and its plumbing, possible that you cracked the fitting on the switchover valve leaning in to change filters.

Probably the best accepted fuel to burn when trying to clean your tank and system out, is commercial Biodiesel, not ATF.

Olivier · #14 11-02-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

However, I don't understand why you continue to feed the car ATF, it should have diesel in it. Whether the combination of alternate fuels and the ATF has caused a problem, perhaps. I suppose that it is as possible that something that has built up over time in the system has now moved down the line to a point where it is causing problems, possibly even something chemically incompatible with the ATF causing congeling or another issue..

THis is why I kept on going with the ATF, as I think something as been moved into the lines due to the cleaning property. I thought it has to unblock it if I put more in and under load.
Nope...

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

If I were in your situation, I'd check the ALDA and its plumbing, possible that you cracked the fitting on the switchover valve leaning in to change filters...

Do I have a ALDA? Where would it be?
Cheers.

layback40 · #15 11-02-2010, 09:29 PM

Have you considered going back to straight diesel for 10 or 20 k miles?

You havent mentioned replacing your air cleaner element. Do it !!

atf will not cause problems, no friction modifiers in it.

How many miles has the motor done?

How much blow by does the motor have? Have you done a compression test?

Have you any other modifications to the fuel system? If so please give details.

Test your lift pump to make sure its working properly.

Does the car have a EGR? If it does, get rid of it. Clean the the inside of the inlet manifold out.

Does it have one of those silly flapper things in the inlet manifold? If it does, get rid of it.

Removal of the tank strainer was not a good idea. Put it back, clean the tank out (remove from car & have it steamed out), blow all your fuel lines out with compressed air & steam if necessary, purge them with diesel. Replace the primary filter with a new one, not just blowing it out.
Fill the clean tank with proper diesel. Replace the secondary filter once you have diesel in the car. Then you will be back to a proper base line.

Run the car with straight diesel for 3 or 4 tanks & report back any changes.

Is there anything else you havent told us?

Change your signature to "but runs like C##P on WVO"