OT: but always on topic... secure raised vehicles! - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mach4 · #76 12-29-2011, 02:41 AM

I hate working under the car, even with a set of sturdy jack stands. The only way I feel safe is with cribs. I built a set of 16 which means I can safely get the entire car up 11.25 inches if needed. There are four which are designed for the "top" of the stack where there is a 3/4" plywood top that the tire sits on and 2x3 integral "chocks"

I live in Southern California so even a car on a good set of jack stands can topple in a big shaker.

Note: in this particular picture the front is actually supported by jack stands and the cribs are just backup... and I'm not working under the car at this point.

I can't take credit for the design, but I definitely commend this strategy to anyone that wants to work safely under a multi-thousand pound car..

disqo · #77 12-29-2011, 10:26 AM

I know they are expensive, but how much is a life worth... I keep thinking about getting one of these since seeing it on Jay Leno's Garage.
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toomany MBZ · #78 12-29-2011, 11:23 AM

Nice creeper, but $650?
Cadillac of Creepers VIII - Griot's Garage
I have one before the above unit. The wheels are the same small ones, but I don't have a grate to roll over, nice touch tho.

KAdams4458 · #79 12-29-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toomany MBZ

Nice creeper, but $650?

And that's just for the one without the adjustable head rest.

That said, I just spent about 20 minutes pondering the price I would pay to not be crushed by the car I was working under, and I think $1,000 is a bargain, so I guess I can justify the pro version with the spiffy lumbar support built-in work light. I might be biased, though...

When I was 16, I was working under the rear of my '75 Chevy C10 with my chest directly under the drive shaft. The jack stand under the passenger side of the rear axle collapsed without warning, and I am only here today to tell you about it because I had my father's ancient Craftsman tool box under the truck with me, and it caught and held the differential housing up just enough for me to squeeze out from beneath the driveshaft when the stand failed. It was a tight fit, and I had no idea as I was struggling to free myself whether the tool box was going to continue holding up the truck. I made it out okay, but the lid on the tool box never worked right again.

FYI - I use multiple sets of jack stands now, and I never put more than one end of a car up on stands.

Can't Know · #80 12-29-2011, 01:13 PM

I got called in to work last night and when I got home and was brushing my teeth I saw this thread for the first time (the beauty of smartphones). I read through it all before going to bed.

Need I say that this is *definitely not* before-bed reading material?

Horrifying stuff.

I'm old enough to remember when bumper jacks were the common thing, and I saw more than one car come off of those just from people trying to change a tire. As safe as we've gotten there are still dangers, I lifted my car one night -- just to look under to check something, not get under -- and I used the MB jack. It was a smooth concrete floor, and when I was getting up I leaned against the car and swooop, it was off the jack, it just pivoted and the base slipped. Had I been stupid enough to have stuck my head under there, I'd have been badly injured as the car is lowered a bit (and hence the need to raise it some just to look under).

Of course that is why I now carry a small rolling-type hydraulic jack (it's like a mini floor jack). I don't ever want to have to use the MB jack even to change a tire. It would probably be okay on a less-smooth surface, but why even chance it?

As far as working under cars...yeah, I have my stupid stories from the arrogance of youth perspective, too. Only by the Grace of God did I not kill myself.

So far as the ratchet-type jack stands, I've used them in the past and have always been wary of the handles. The remainder (breaking teeth etc.) seems to be much conjecture, as I've yet to hear or read anything about that. Nevertheless, as with any tool, you should regularly inspect them for any signs of unusual wear, cracks, etc. and protect them from rust and the elements.

Regarding the handle, reading the thread last night gave my subconscious some work and this morning I'm visualizing the stands. I think a short piece of 2x4 (8"?) with a 5/16" hole could be placed against the jack stand frame and handle, then a machine-thread J-hook from the leg (between the handle and leg) to a washer and wing nut. Spun down firmly after the height is locked, that would prevent raising the handle. Just a thought, I'm not looking at them now, but that should work.

In any event, thinking about safety is a good thing. After all, if you don't think about it, you may never think about anything else ever again.

Happy New Year to the gearheads and everyone else, too. And make it a SAFE 2012, too.

vstech · #81 12-29-2011, 01:47 PM

the biggest problem I have with the pin style stands is the overall construction of the base. pin style stands are usually thin steel, in a triangle or circular construction... where as the ratchet style stands above 3 tons are all heavy 1/8-3/16" steel, with cast iron bar and a solid steel pin/handle... I would HATE to be under a car with them in earthquake territory without additional backup supports, like tires, or wooden stands... heck, even some phone books stacked up would be safer than a ratchet stand in an earthquake...

reading about how little force it takes to pop the handle of a stand, I may design a chain clip for them for future use, ya never know if a prybar or other tool would slip when beating on something, and contact that handle, 90-170lbs of force is VERY EASY to get when swinging a hammer/prybar...

I noticed some ratchet stands with a pin to hold down the tooth, for sale recently, but they were only 1.5 ton stands... too small for what I usually have on the lift...

Can't Know · #82 12-29-2011, 02:01 PM

Here's the pic of the guy welding under the truck supported by 4x4s.

He's got a pair, so he's redundantly safe, right? Besides, notice the rock behind the wheel to keep it from rolling. Hopefully there is one in front of the front wheel, too.

And isn't that the gas tank that he is welding right next to?

Seems there is plenty of risk to go around in this one shot.

The worst part of it is, he's learned that over time, and continues to do it. And if the odds never catch up with him, I doubt he'd ever admit it was not safe.

vstech · #83 12-29-2011, 03:01 PM

at the angle of that lean on the truck, any wind could easily push the truck off of the boards... also, the tires are quite prone to pop off the bead with that much weight on them...

E150GT · #84 12-29-2011, 03:47 PM

ive had cars fall of the jack before while changing a tire.

toomany MBZ · #85 12-29-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAdams4458

And that's just for the one without the adjustable head rest.

That said, I just spent about 20 minutes pondering the price I would pay to not be crushed by the car I was working under, and I think $1,000 is a bargain, so I guess I can justify the pro version with the spiffy lumbar support built-in work light. I might be biased, though...

FYI - I use multiple sets of jack stands now, and I never put more than one end of a car up on stands.

You must have missed a catalog or two. It has three positions, flat, low and high (pic). No tool trays tho.

Your experience is frightening for sure, but it wasn't a failure of a mid priced creeper. Yet, if you need to justify buying a very nice creeper, by all means.

I agree with having substantial jack stands, the pin type is too often just stamped splayed pipe for a base. My current ones are the ratchet type.

I just replaced my floor jack, as it started to leak oil for no known reason. It's in the landfill now.

barry123400 · #86 12-29-2011, 04:26 PM

A guy could build the equivelant roll cage type creeper for far less than they sell for.

Carpenterman · #87 12-29-2011, 05:31 PM

I got tired of worrying about safety, so when I bought my second old Benz I bit the bullet and bought a lift. I decided on the MaxJax which is nice because the posts are removable and have wheels for setting against the wall out of the way in a crowded garage. Around $2k.

I love it.

vstech · #88 12-29-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

A guy could build the equivelant roll cage type creeper for far less than they sell for.

... I wonder what tube they use? I doubt sch40 pipe is adequate... I don't think I paid 1K for the tube steel roll cage in my drag car...

MarkM · #89 12-30-2011, 01:05 AM

Hi All,

This is a very good topic. Please see the attached thumbnail as an example of a possible hazard when raising a vehicle. My apologies to a fellow member here who posted this picture here recently, but I am genuinely concerned about safety (actually, safety is my profession)....I will give the benefit of the doubt in that he/she may not have been getting under the vehicle, but the picture also does illustrate a potential severe hazard.

One of the more hazardous conditions "arises" when we need to raise the entire vehicle, and all wheels need to move freely or be removed, as in the attached picture. REMEMBER...when we don't have at least two wheels on the ground or on ramps, special measures must be taken to stabilize the raised vehicle to ensure that it is safe to work underneath. In the attached picture, the four jack stands have a lot of "play" and will allow vehicle to rock significantly.....in fact, it would be easy to get this vehicle rocking by pushing with only your little finger, and with so much weight rocking, it would be very easy to make the vehicle fall off the stands.

Since most of us do not have a garage lift, we need to use blocks or cribbing (typically made of wood) as footings. Here are some rules of thumb:

1) vehicle should be on level surface
2) vehicle should be well balanced on supports, with center of gravity well within support points
3) supports should be on solid ground (not on the lawn)
4) Cris-crossed timbers (cribbing) or blocks should have flat square surfaces (to prevent rocking)
5) the height of the blocks should not exceed two times the width (if your blocks or cribbing are 1 x 1 foot wide, your max. height would be 2 feet)
6) 4 blocked points is best, 3 is OK
7) choose widest spacing available for support points
8) If using blocks in combination with jack stands, use a minimum of two blocks to stabilize the vehicle from rocking (4 jack stands have too much play).
9) before going under vehicle, try to push vehicle in all directions making sure that you can't get it to rock.

Good luck and be safe,

Mark

vstech · #90 12-30-2011, 07:34 AM

I recently had a pair of vehicles raised up very high for subframe replacement. I jammed a pair of stands at the midpoint of the frame and another set behind the subframe mounts for security, I had the front tires on the ground, and chocked forward and rear, I also 2" wide ratchet strapped one car to a tree, and the other car to another car with all 4 wheels on the ground, and locked into place... I don't like vehicles possibly moving when I or anyone is under them...
I have also used a stack of wheels with tires on them as jack safeties... and a walnut tree as the jack stand with two ratchet straps as steady straps...