Will I still Get Filtered Oil If I Block Off My Oil Cooler Lines or Ports? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tangofox007 · #16 04-20-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

From the diagram and description, it does appear that if the oil cooler is blocked or bypassed (note the oil cooler is essentially blocked by the thermostat with a cold engine), the engine will still get filtered oil via the main flow filter component (24a), which is separated by a seal to the bypass filter component (24).

The bypass valve and the bypass element are two entirely different concepts that share common nomencleture. One has little to do with the other.

funola · #17 04-20-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

The bypass valve and the bypass element are two entirely different concepts that share common nomencleture. One has little to do with the other.

I agree with ya. I did not say they are the same. One is a valve, the other is a filter element, 2 entirely different items. The only common nomenclature is the word "bypass".

Diesel911 · #18 04-20-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

I don't quite go along with the first statement that you made about the outer part of the filter being exposed to the same amount of pressure. (Air does not get trapped inside of the Oil Filter Housinge because there is a small hole in the top of the central Tube in the Oil Filter Cap that allows the Air up to that level to be pushed out through that hole and down the tubeing and into the Crankcase.)

This is an oil filter not a bled hydraulic system. Without the presence of air I would guess that to be true - but I think the oil filter set up will be more variable. I haven't been able to check this though - but I have big plans! (I've always got big plans I'm still sourcing equipment to measure glow plug output voltages...)

As for the second statement that I've highlighted I agree so long as the filter is OK you are unlikely to have any trouble - BUT how can you measure the condition of the filter when it is in the housing? Service intervals are set to so many thousand miles / kilometers after which it is assumed that the filter is old and so it gets changed. Would you have to change the filter more frequently because the flow through the filter is not as good as it should be? I think perhaps anyone who just blocks off the oil cooler unions ought to think about that!

If you remove the Oil Filter Cap and look inside and then remove the Filter you can see that the Oil inlet and the whole outside of the Oil Filter is exposed to the same Oil. So what ever pressure that Oil has is around the Whole outside of the Filter.

This is a different subject from the above.
I have measured the Oil Pressure of the Oil from the Center of the Oil Filter Cap and that would be the Oil that has gone through the Bypass/Fine section of the Oil Filter and also the Pressure out side of the Oil Filter and with a New Oil Filer the Pressures were the same.

Ihave other stuff hooked up on the Oil Filter Cap now but in the pic you can see where I drilled through.

Stretch · #19 04-20-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

I don't think so. That's not going to cause a differential across the filter element. But, bottom line, I am not at all convinced that blocking the oil cooler plumbing is an acceptable strategy.

I agree with that too! But that's not really the point - that's been handled in the "original" thread that diesel911 talks about in post#1 - not that I can find that bloody thread now of course!

I think it will / could cause a pressure difference across the filter as the amount of oil flowing through the control valve and up (Way one as I've called it above) is restricted. With an oil cooler in place there would be additional supply via the oil cooler (Way two) which would make up for the restriction.

If there is no supply via Way two then the filter just isn't getting as much oil as it would... blah blah blah (Sorry I'm trying to keep this short and sweet - honest)

Stretch · #20 04-20-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

If you remove the Oil Filter Cap and look inside and then remove the Filter you can see that the Oil inlet and the whole outside of the Oil Filter is exposed to the same Oil. So what ever pressure that Oil has is around the Whole outside of the Filter.

This is a different subject from the above.
I have measured the Oil Pressure of the Oil from the Center of the Oil Filter Cap and that would be the Oil that has gone through the Bypass/Fine section of the Oil Filter and also the Pressure out side of the Oil Filter and with a New Oil Filer the Pressures were the same.

Ihave other stuff hooked up on the Oil Filter Cap now but in the pic you can see where I drilled through.

Interesting set up there - have you got any data?

As for the way in which the oil goes into the filter from the outside in - I have seen that and it is clearly shown in the schematics in the FSM as well. I still don't think the pressure would necessarily be the same at all points all the time though - I'm a stubborn git I know!

However, I'm not so stubborn not be interested in your measurements. I am very interested in your measurements.

Diesel911 · #21 04-20-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Uh oh I feel a slap on the wrists coming on - I've done it again - the bybass valve is the one I'm talking about... (relief valve is on the pump - not even in the filter housing)

I understand what you say about the filter element being obstructed - and I agree - but - the obstruction could also come from the operation of the thermostat control valve couldn't it?

In the picture I posted the bypass valve is number 9 (this opens with a differential pressure of 3.5 bar)

The control valve is number 12 this one works in combination with the thermostat.

If the Manual is to be believed the Thermostat Control Valve does not block the the Oil Flow when it is completely opened.

I think there must be some poor translation wording in the Manual that is making things more difficult.

The Mercedes I have is the only one I have ever owned. In the 3 years + I have owned it I have had to Cram to learn stuff about it. Apparently the learning never ends.

funola · #22 04-20-2011, 11:22 AM

Does anyone know what the micron ratings are for the 2 filter sections?

1. Main
2. bypass

It sounds like they are physically separated and requires a seal (25) on the clean side so they get routed to the proper ports b (engine bearings) and c (oil pan).

tangofox007 · #23 04-20-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

If the Manual is to be believed the Thermostat Control Valve does not block the the Oil Flow when it is completely opened.

I think it would be more correct to say that the normal flow is not completely blocked. That leaves the possibility that the resulting partial flow might not be all that ideal on a permanent basis.

funola · #24 04-20-2011, 11:55 AM

Are the internals of the filter housing rebuildable? i.e. can it be disassembled? I have access to a spare filter housing and would be interesting to have a look inside.

Diesel911 · #25 04-20-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Are the internals of the filter housing rebuildable? i.e. can it be disassembled? I have access to a spare filter housing and would be interesting to have a look inside.

Mercedes clearly did not make it as easy to get at the Thermostat as they did the Bypass Valve that has a sloted Retainer.

What amazes me is that the ports the Oil passes through are not very large.

The Oil Filter Thermostat is around $40 each.
The Pic of parts shows that there are part numbers but that does not mean parts are available.

Stretch · #26 04-20-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

I think it would be more correct to say that the normal flow is not completely blocked. That leaves the possibility that the resulting partial flow might not be all that ideal on a permanent basis.

Yeee ha! That's what I'm saying / trying to say!

Stretch · #27 04-20-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Are the internals of the filter housing rebuildable? i.e. can it be disassembled? I have access to a spare filter housing and would be interesting to have a look inside.

Yes in principle you can take it apart.

I was planning to do so and then publish an expose... in my opinion there isn't enough information about the filter housing on the forum - I'm glad this is now in the process of being remedied.

Anyway I fell at the first hurdle - I couldn't replicate the special tool to remove the end screw caps to get into the guts. Also I'm running out of cash for this project and can't justify ripping that bit apart as well was the rest of the car. I'm quite sure I've found the one bit that is OK.

So funola if you have a spare one that you are planning to pull apart please post pictures of the guts and gore.

Stretch · #28 04-20-2011, 02:54 PM

Oh yes - when we've finished talking about the specific oil cooler removal pros and cons can we talk about why the filter has coarse and fine element sections? If I remember correctly I've got some good information about that. (I'm checking my source tonight - bed time reading - how sad!?)

scottmcphee · #29 04-20-2011, 07:41 PM

All of this could just possibly be an over engineered system.

Most cars branch a good volume of pressurized oil through the one element filter, and be done with it. Some have and in-line oil cooler that is always-on, not thermostatically controlled.

MBenz has two section oil filter, pressure bypass, temperature regulated oil cooler diversion, and ?? whatever else... yadda yadda.

But what I'm really wondering is why anybody would want to bypass the oil cooler if the car has one? I mean pinching off in case of a leak I understand, to get home... but beyond that why?

funola · #30 04-20-2011, 07:55 PM

Maybe this over engineered oil filter system has something to do with the legendary longevity of these engines?