Advice req'd:- shaft spline wear / measurements / possible fix 722.118 transmission - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #31 06-06-2011, 03:08 AM

Mini update:-

The local CNC blokes can't do it. They've recommended these people:-

http://www.tandwielen.nl/

I await a response!

Stretch · #32 06-09-2011, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Mini update:-

The local CNC blokes can't do it. They've recommended these people:-

http://www.tandwielen.nl/

I await a response!

Unsurprisingly I've been told that the cost of a custom made part would be in excess of 1000 euros... now that's a shame.

layback40 · #33 06-09-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Unsurprisingly I've been told that the cost of a custom made part would be in excess of 1000 euros... now that's a shame.

Thats cheaper than I thought they would suggest.
But I guess they do say "in excess" so thats kind of a open ended price ~ do & screw.
Now Army, may I suggest you go see your local cnc guy & see if he can just replace the spline on your part. I guess around 400 euros, but then I am not there.
Its a surprise that here isint a dead trans you can get the part from.

Stretch · #34 06-10-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

Thats cheaper than I thought they would suggest.
But I guess they do say "in excess" so thats kind of a open ended price ~ do & screw.
Now Army, may I suggest you go see your local cnc guy & see if he can just replace the spline on your part. I guess around 400 euros, but then I am not there.
Its a surprise that here isint a dead trans you can get the part from.

I'll take the part along to the CNC people and shove it under their noses - they're making something else for me anyway so I've got to go next week (or may be the week after - or perhaps the week after that!). I'll see what they say. They've already said no though and put me onto the people above.

As for a dead trans - yeah sure but that'll cost about 300 euros here only they sell it as fully working! ... OK I'm not being fair (not a very friendly comment) but of the places that keep the dead ones, that I've unearthed so far, they don't have the bit in stock. I'm also thinking that this could be quite a common problem with the 722.1 - those splines look way too poofy to me. Hardly a nice over engineered Isambard Kingdom Brunel job.

So I'm a bit stuck. I keep on thinking about the snake oil solution with the view that it might buy me some time whilst I hunt down a cheapish 722.3 to rebuild and then fit that at a later date... but then I think oh bollocks I'd rather have a DSG - now how could I get that to fit!

I could, as you say, just put it back together - but I'm not really happy with that idea. I might post a video of the amount of play the splines have when you fit the intermediate shaft in place and then twist the front planet assembly. It is not a pretty site.

Despite the "no no no - don't do it" comments - that I do agree with - and I thank everyone for making them - I think (may be - just may be) something has to be better than nothing.

Stretch · #35 06-21-2011, 08:00 AM

I just spent the day doing the rounds

No one will split a gearbox and sell me the bit I want. They all want in excess of 300 euros for a "one owner low mileage driven by a Nun on Sundays" second hand transmission... Hmmm do I feel lucky punk?

I've also shown the front planet assembly to several machining companies and even my engine rebuilding contact and they all say buy new. They won't touch it. They won't repair it. Like I said before 20 years ago it might have been different here...

So I'm back to snake oil again.

I'm awaiting a response from Henkel - who are not as quick to reply as other companies.

Stretch · #36 06-21-2011, 10:19 AM

Well I've just spoken with Loctite in the UK and they reckon I should be using 648

http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/fullproduct-list-loctite-4995.htm?iname=Loctite+648&countryCode=uke&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=1000000IZXU

Bog standard anerobic adhesive.

I've been told that this is used by many expensive car manufacturers during the assembly of drive components to eliminate transmission clunks.

If I can't get hold of a good replacement bit in the next 3 weeks I'm going for the snake oil layback40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stretch · #37 07-02-2011, 11:13 AM

I've been driving around the Netherlands today buying stuff:-

They are both 722.1s

One is a 722.118 furthest away in the picture

The one at the front is a 722.112

722.118 is for a diesel the other is off of a 2.8 litre petrol thing.

I'm gonna spilt these boxes tomorrow to see if they either of them have a good front planet assembly.

Don't ask how much time money and effort I spent today - I'm not going to publish that! But I will say I got them both for less than the "one lady owner from birth less than 60K km" ones they usually sell. Both 'boxes came with entertaining stories though of how they are perfect blah blah blah. We'll see!

Oh and just for fun look what else I picked up at a really really American price cheap:-

A 722.3. This one however is guaranteed not to work. Apparently it only shifts into first and reverse. Should be an easy fix!

So it now looks like I'll be fixing up 4 transmissions and selling 3 on. Anyone want to come and pick up a renewed 722.118, a 722.112, or a 722.3? Special rates for PP members - nice handy location for most members!

rs899 · #38 07-02-2011, 12:25 PM

Army-

Good job. You might want to think about this factoid: the 722.112 (from a 280SE?) is a four speed box ( I have ,I think, a nice one I used to repair my 300sd 722.120 front pump). Perhaps that's the one you want to rebuild for yourself(?)

Rick

Stretch · #39 07-02-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rs899

Army-

Good job. You might want to think about this factoid: the 722.112 (from a 280SE?) is a four speed box ( I have ,I think, a nice one I used to repair my 300sd 722.120 front pump). Perhaps that's the one you want to rebuild for yourself(?)

Rick

Do you think the .120 is a better gearbox? It seems a bit heavier... but that just might be oil...

From what I understand the valve body wouldn't match the behaviour of a (slightly) lower revving diesel engine would it? Also it has an extra rod on the right hand side - you can see it in the picture I posted above. I'm not quite sure what this does yet - I'll have to consult ATSG.

Anyway - early night tonight! I can't wait 'till tomorrow to see if this gamble has paid off.

Stretch · #40 07-02-2011, 03:39 PM

Luckily in summer you don't need to tinker by torchlight so I started with the 722.118 and got this:-

Very similar to the one that was in my 'box - bugger...

BUT - da da da da da DAAAAAAA!

on the 722.112 I got this:-

Stretch · #41 07-02-2011, 03:53 PM

So if you are looking for this bit for your own transmission I can say this:-

1) Don't worry about getting the exact same transmission as the one you've got. You'll find this bit in any 722.1 series transmission

2) Looking at the ATSG manual it seems to me that this part will also be available in 722.0 - 3 speed transmissions

3) I think there is also a pretty good chance the 722.2 transmissions have this bit too.

And as I'm in such a good mood having found a second hand bit in good condition I'll even stick my neck out and make the following very non scientific guess - petrol engines don't shake as much as diesel engines, so perhaps there is a better chance of getting a good bit from an automatic transmission that has been connected to a petrol engine. (Don't bother buying a 722.118!)

layback40 · #42 07-02-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

So if you are looking for this bit for your own transmission I can say this:-

1) Don't worry about getting the exact same transmission as the one you've got. You'll find this bit in any 722.1 series transmission

2) Looking at the ATSG manual it seems to me that this part will also be available in 722.0 - 3 speed transmissions

3) I think there is also a pretty good chance the 722.2 transmissions have this bit too.

And as I'm in such a good mood having found a second hand bit in good condition I'll even stick my neck out and make the following very non scientific guess - petrol engines don't shake as much as diesel engines, so perhaps there is a better chance of getting a good bit from an automatic transmission that has been connected to a petrol engine. (Don't bother buying a 722.118!)

You get 10 out of 10 for perseverance Army !!!!!!
Your comment about the difference with a diesel probably has some merit. The impact load when the motor fires is far greater. This is probably why the oil pump drives on the TC sometimes fails on diesel models. You would expect the TC to take most of the shock out of the drive though.
I am glad you have had a win. I was starting to feel guilty given my old 300D (1980) has its trans still in it. But then its coming into winter here ~ cool & raining today, the thought of pulling a trans out is depressing.
I have enough stuff to do & get done on machinery as most are not working now because of the weather.
The 722.3 is probably potentially the best of what you have. Rebuilt, it wont have many of the change problems of the earlier ones.

I hope those trans all came with their TC !!

Stretch · #43 07-03-2011, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

...
I hope those trans all came with their TC !!

Oh yes - I made sure of that. I'm going to check the numbers but it looks like the torque converters for the 722.1 and 722.3 are the same, which is a shame as I understand these torque converters don't lock at higher speeds; so they always have a bit of power loss.

rs899 · #44 07-03-2011, 06:54 AM

Quote:

looks like the torque converters for the 722.1 and 722.3 are the same

They shouldn't be. The .3 has much stouter fingers that drive the oil pump. If you can get that one to work, use it (of course, you already have all the bits to redo the 722.1s, don't you?)

Stretch · #45 07-03-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Well I've just spoken with Loctite in the UK and they reckon I should be using 648

http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/fullproduct-list-loctite-4995.htm?iname=Loctite+648&countryCode=uke&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=1000000IZXU

Bog standard anerobic adhesive.

I've been told that this is used by many expensive car manufacturers during the assembly of drive components to eliminate transmission clunks.

If I can't get hold of a good replacement bit in the next 3 weeks I'm going for the snake oil layback40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I forgot to say. I got a response from the Belgian branch of Loctite and they reckoned I should be using 660

http://www.henkelna.com/SID-145508E5-6ADEF992/industrial/loctite-videos-12944-12974.htm

So if you're going to go down this route - take your pick folks!