Safe, I hope, Oil Question - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

weird beard · #31 08-10-2011, 04:00 AM

I use Mack Bulldog Premium Plus 10w30. It is around $15 a gallon, I get it from my work, and it is diesel rated. The best place to search for a deal on oil would be truck shops and parts stores, they usually have something on promotion.

This is taken from a document I found while searching for some info on this oil.

Quote:

Mack® Bulldog®

• Having the optimum viscosity at each operating condition will minimize overall engine friction and reduce fuel consumption. Two things are important: viscosity itself as well as viscosity retention

•Viscosity

–A multigrade lubricant with a lower viscosity grade could provide improved savings

– For example, using a Bulldog EO-O Premium Plus 10W-30 compared to Bulldog EO-O Premium Plus 15W-40 would provide a better chance of capturing the potential fuel savings

•Viscosity Retention

– Viscosity can increase over time because of lubricant break-down and contamination. Soot particles, contaminants, and by-products of oil break-down can lead to oil thickening, leading to reduced fuel economy and compromise wear protection

• Mack 10W-30 products provide outstanding protection against lubricant break-down and contamination that promotes the potential for improved fuel savings from the outstanding viscosity retention side as well as from its lower viscosity grade

ForcedInduction · #32 08-10-2011, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

How about Rotella T6

If its sold under the Shell brand, its not synthetic.

WB, 30 is too thin.

shertex · #33 08-10-2011, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

I have not heard the suggestion to change the filter at 50% of the oil life.

Are there any comments?

This has been discussed on various other threads. I was toying with this for a while, especially when I was leaning toward extended drain intervals. But at the intervals being discussed here (5-6K), I don't think there's any reason to believe that changing the filter between oil changes provides any benefit.

JHZR2 · #34 08-10-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

I'm in the SF Bay area. I put in Rotella 5W-40.

I drove about 40 miles on the interstate today. The engine ran about 3 to 4 degrees cooler than it had before the oil change.

You would not be able to accurately determine a 3-4 degree difference unless maybe you were reading values with an ohmmeter. Were you?

JHZR2 · #35 08-10-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Rotella doesn't make synthetic. Their "synthetic" is a flat out lie allowed by US law, thanks to Castrol.

UGGGH, Please get your facts straight, understand the scenario, chemistry and everything else before starting to spew out half-truths and fallacies like this.

Its funny that excessively hydrotreated wax is not syn in your book, but ethane formed from petroleum cat crackers and natural gas plants is somehow any different. Here's a hint, they are both derived from natural resources and just modified in chemical structure... Neither is truly synthetic in the definite sense.

JHZR2 · #36 08-10-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

If its sold under the Shell brand, its not synthetic.

WB, 30 is too thin.

30 is too thin based upon what? Viscosity isnt the end all, be all metric, film strength is. Modern 10w-30 HDEOs and SAE 30 grade oils will have excellent film strength. Look at the viscosity vs temp chart I postd last page. It is very telling. It shows very clearly that a run of the mill 5 or 10w-30 is NOT suitable for application, but if meeting the right spec (G5 which has become A3/B3 or 4) means that it has a superior HT/HS viscosity, so it will have suitable film strength to support the power density and operation of these engines.

The truth to your statement is that it is only suitable to run a spec 30wt up to 30C in MB engines per their specifications. It is too thin only when over 30C (86F or so).

If you have oil analysis and teardown results showing other info, please present. If just speculation, no sense confusing people with incorrect statements.

JHZR2 · #37 08-10-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

This has been discussed on various other threads. I was toying with this for a while, especially when I was leaning toward extended drain intervals. But at the intervals being discussed here (5-6K), I don't think there's any reason to believe that changing the filter between oil changes provides any benefit.

Im not 100% positive if/how the bypass on these engines work. But if seeing adequate oil pressure and it rises up suitably fast, I wouldnt much worry about early changeouts. Some vehicles in fact have long recommended doing the filter only once every other oil change. Im not sure Im an advocate of that, but can personally advise based upon experience that the media, glue, etc in a modern oil filter is good for 2 years of use (time wise, put a lot of miles on and this may not be the case), and 10-12k miles will be fine.

sjh · #38 08-10-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

You would not be able to accurately determine a 3-4 degree difference unless maybe you were reading values with an ohmmeter. Were you?

It's quite straightforward to resolve 3 - 4 degrees on the gauge.
Resolving ~ 3.5 mm on the gauge is no big deal.

After a year with the measuring device I know its behavior and the typical temperature response of the car.

I greatly appreciate your additional comments above as well.

I note from your personal page that we have very similar technical backgrounds.

sixto · #39 08-10-2011, 01:08 PM

Does anyone have oil analysis results comparing intermediate oil filter changes over the course of a fill?

Sixto
87 300D

Orv · #40 08-10-2011, 02:03 PM

The tricky thing about paper filters is a used (but not clogged) one actually filters more finely than a fresh one, because the larger holes in the medium become bridged over. So changing a filter too frequently can actually result in less protection.

JHZR2 · #41 08-10-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Does anyone have oil analysis results comparing intermediate oil filter changes over the course of a fill?

Sixto
87 300D

Unless you ran UOA with particle count and were able to correlate wear rates to particle size distribution, you don't really have a case. Even then it may be suspect. too many variables in play. UOA is a trending tool.

sixto · #42 08-10-2011, 06:24 PM

Is there a service to compare the flow rate of filters; one with X miles and one with 2X miles? Is there a service to compare filtration effectiveness of used filters? I ask because it seems there's an interface between a component with tight tolerance (oil) and a component with loose tolerance (filter) when it comes to using oil analysis to extend oil change intervals. How much does oil analysis tell you about the filter? In short, what's the scientific basis behind the service life of a filter?

Sixto
87 300D

ForcedInduction · #43 08-10-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

UGGGH, Please get your facts straight, understand the scenario, chemistry and everything else before starting to spew out half-truths and fallacies like this.

I suggest you follow your own advice to prevent further embarrassment of yourself.

Quote:

Here's a hint, they are both derived from natural resources and just modified in chemical structure... Neither is truly synthetic in the definite sense.

Please educate yourself on what "synthetic" actually means.
ANYTHING produced from crude oil is not synthetic. It contains sulfur and other natural contaminants. "Synthetic" oil made from this (Base III) is nothing more than extra-refined typical dino oil. Nothing more.
Oil produced from natural gas is a clean slate, no sulfur, no contaminants. The engineers can design the oil to be and do exactly what they want.

So please, try to get your facts straight.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/00q4/synthetic_motor_oil_gets_all_new_semantics-column
"Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil," eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70 percent by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock."

"The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from scratch, molecule by molecule? The synthesizing of PAO starts with ethylene gas, a simple two-carbon molecule, and builds till it gets 10-carbon molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high temperatures."

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

The truth to your statement is that it is only suitable to run a spec 30wt up to 30C in MB engines per their specifications. It is too thin only when over 30C (86F or so).

Considering its summer, unless you live north of the border, your statement verifies my fact.

sjh · #44 08-10-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

You would not be able to accurately determine a 3-4 degree difference unless maybe you were reading values with an ohmmeter. Were you?

Please share more information on oil/lubrication/tribology chemistry.

In my '90 w124 300D 2.5L Turbo the temperature readings change much more with load (not so much ambient) than my prior w123 300D NA. I'm more alert to the readings than previously.

Enlarged, scale superimpose

If your device is both stable and consistent it is straight-forward to resolve ~3 ºC.

One can do better than that but I only mentioned ~3 ºC.

As an example the current reading is 81.2 ºC but, a prudent engineer (are there any other kind

) would say its ~ 81 ºC.

Please keep on sharing.

MS Fowler · #45 08-10-2011, 08:01 PM

I thought the standard was to resolve to one half the finest marked division. A gauge marked in 20 degree increments would be readable to 10 degrees.
OTOH, I know we all interpolate much finer than that. I have guys reading a 0-300PSI gauge with 5 degree "tick" marks to a single PSI.