Micron rating on diesel engine oil filters - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

strelnik · #1 11-14-2011, 04:53 PM

I was researching some items and discovered that the filters used on old (1960s) Simcas and Citroens were 30% more stringent than the filtration used on 1980s-90s Mercedes diesels!

What are people using now in their diesels, I am curious.

This will also make me review what I'm using in other cars I own.

Does anyone use any oil filters with 5-10 micron filtration ratings?

I'm very curious.

Thanks.

1980-300D(bio) · #2 11-15-2011, 12:23 AM

I know mann is about 8 micron. look it up in their website.

charmalu · #3 11-15-2011, 02:44 AM

I have a Mann filter in the 300D and 240D.
There has been some long oil filter debates the past couple years and probably since the forum started. there is the one where they disected some of the filter and found the sticks, bugs and dirt, and packed with Cotton Gin waste.

I did a search but couldn`t find the one`s I was thinking of, but here is a good one. I`ll look in my notes and see if I can locate them.

Oil Filter Company Babble, Purolator for 617

Charlie

whunter · #4 11-15-2011, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

I have a Mann filter in the 300D and 240D.
There has been some long oil filter debates the past couple years and probably since the forum started. there is the one where they dissected some of the filter and found the sticks, bugs and dirt, and packed with Cotton Gin waste.

I did a search but couldn't find the one's I was thinking of, but here is a good one. I`ll look in my notes and see if I can locate them.

Oil Filter Company Babble, Purolator for 617

Charlie

Those threads where deleted by the OP, years ago.

charmalu · #5 11-15-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Those threads where deleted by the OP, years ago.

I see part of the problem, mercedesshop.com is in the title, not Peachparts.

Here is one I was thinking of.
OIL FILTERS: which one to buy????

Here is another.
OEM Oil Filtration Efficiency 50%@27μ / 99%@50μ

Charlie

compress ignite · #6 11-15-2011, 11:32 AM

Get ready to abandon your normal lifestyle for a couple of weeks.

- Bob is the Oil Guy

Stretch · #7 11-15-2011, 03:16 AM

I've been using knecht filters

MAHLE | Filtration: The heart of filtration

I don't have the specs to hand though. If I manage to reach the back of the garage in the next few days I'll try and find them for you.

(I prefer the knecht filters to the Mann ones as they come with the O rings!)

d12cons34 · #8 11-15-2011, 04:16 AM

I have a Mann filter in the 300D and 240D.
There has been some long oil filter debates the past couple years and probably since the forum started. there is the one where they disected some of the filter and found the sticks, bugs and dirt, and packed with Cotton Gin waste.

Dave Donaldson · #9 11-15-2011, 09:13 AM

Cheers, I spent 10 years in R and D for a automotive parts supplier for fuel air and oil filtration systems. All testing and product development was done in accordance to SAE J 806 b, and JIS criteria.
On my 300 SDL 1987 I noted a 2 stage filter. pleated paper element, and a cotton element. Most paper elements, as per SAE the standard is 20 microns at 8 psi pressure differential across the media,, at this point the by pass kicks in and by passes the filter. My experience shows that as the filter media becomes more contaminated the ability to filter becomes greater, in regards to filtering smaller particles.. Since the 70's paper media has become known as depth type , thicker cross section,, meaning as the fibers swell with exposure to water it becomes tighter in terms of porosity. The same happens but much more in the cotton element. OEM requirements for our products were higher. The holding capacity, micron rating and ability to withstand pressure differential, {to prevent pleat collapsing and media migration } were more stringent.
We used AC fine dust from SAE spec. and it contained 2 to 200 micron particle size ,Millipore analysis was done and efficiency rate was normally in the 5 micron and 95% capture range but only in the last 50 % of the test. 8 to 10 hr test. contaminate feed rate of 2 grams per hour . So having babbled way too much,,I have done the following on all my vehicles one filter change every 2 oil changes,, and installed a K 55 partial flow filter cotton element that take 5 psi from oil gallery and returns it to sump,, also serves as oil cooler too . Verified that residual partial size is nominal 5 micron, and based on studies by the aviation industry, 5 micron will pass through bearing clearance with out adverse affects, as for rings to cylinder wear it is mostly a issue of end gap ..materials,, and surface finish. Water acids, and chemical formation and sludge are only cured by frequent oil changes. Cheers Dave D. caveat, applies only to autos not fleet / industrial and or stationary applications

strelnik · #10 11-15-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Donaldson

Cheers, I spent 10 years in R and D for a automotive parts supplier for fuel air and oil filtration systems. All testing and product development was done in accordance to SAE J 806 b, and JIS criteria.
On my 300 SDL 1987 I noted a 2 stage filter. pleated paper element, and a cotton element. Most paper elements, as per SAE the standard is 20 microns at 8 psi pressure differential across the media,, at this point the by pass kicks in and by passes the filter. My experience shows that as the filter media becomes more contaminated the ability to filter becomes greater, in regards to filtering smaller particles.. Since the 70's paper media has become known as depth type , thicker cross section,, meaning as the fibers swell with exposure to water it becomes tighter in terms of porosity. The same happens but much more in the cotton element. OEM requirements for our products were higher. The holding capacity, micron rating and ability to withstand pressure differential, {to prevent pleat collapsing and media migration } were more stringent.
We used AC fine dust from SAE spec. and it contained 2 to 200 micron particle size ,Millipore analysis was done and efficiency rate was normally in the 5 micron and 95% capture range but only in the last 50 % of the test. 8 to 10 hr test. contaminate feed rate of 2 grams per hour . So having babbled way too much,,I have done the following on all my vehicles one filter change every 2 oil changes,, and installed a K 55 partial flow filter cotton element that take 5 psi from oil gallery and returns it to sump,, also serves as oil cooler too . Verified that residual partial size is nominal 5 micron, and based on studies by the aviation industry, 5 micron will pass through bearing clearance with out adverse affects, as for rings to cylinder wear it is mostly a issue of end gap ..materials,, and surface finish. Water acids, and chemical formation and sludge are only cured by frequent oil changes. Cheers Dave D. caveat, applies only to autos not fleet / industrial and or stationary applications

Dave,
Thanks for the info, who makes the K-55 filter?

Dave Donaldson · #11 11-15-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

Dave,
Thanks for the info, who makes the K-55 filter?

Cheer, the K 55 was a Kralinator made,,,but purolater Fram,,should also carry them we sold the kit to retro fix canister braided lines and 1/8 npt fittings.
BTW In the movies Tommy Boy,,, the filter factory in the show was the one I worked at... may also be called K 55a smaller version

funola · #12 11-16-2011, 11:33 AM

Dave, I've been changing oil filter every other oil change also. What do you think of installing a pressure gauge before and after the filter to measure differential pressure and determine when to change the filter? What kind of readings should I be seeing on a new filter? At what reading should the filter be changed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Donaldson

Cheers, I spent 10 years in R and D for a automotive parts supplier for fuel air and oil filtration systems. All testing and product development was done in accordance to SAE J 806 b, and JIS criteria.
On my 300 SDL 1987 I noted a 2 stage filter. pleated paper element, and a cotton element. Most paper elements, as per SAE the standard is 20 microns at 8 psi pressure differential across the media,, at this point the by pass kicks in and by passes the filter. My experience shows that as the filter media becomes more contaminated the ability to filter becomes greater, in regards to filtering smaller particles.. Since the 70's paper media has become known as depth type , thicker cross section,, meaning as the fibers swell with exposure to water it becomes tighter in terms of porosity. The same happens but much more in the cotton element. OEM requirements for our products were higher. The holding capacity, micron rating and ability to withstand pressure differential, {to prevent pleat collapsing and media migration } were more stringent.
We used AC fine dust from SAE spec. and it contained 2 to 200 micron particle size ,Millipore analysis was done and efficiency rate was normally in the 5 micron and 95% capture range but only in the last 50 % of the test. 8 to 10 hr test. contaminate feed rate of 2 grams per hour . So having babbled way too much,,I have done the following on all my vehicles one filter change every 2 oil changes,, and installed a K 55 partial flow filter cotton element that take 5 psi from oil gallery and returns it to sump,, also serves as oil cooler too . Verified that residual partial size is nominal 5 micron, and based on studies by the aviation industry, 5 micron will pass through bearing clearance with out adverse affects, as for rings to cylinder wear it is mostly a issue of end gap ..materials,, and surface finish. Water acids, and chemical formation and sludge are only cured by frequent oil changes. Cheers Dave D. caveat, applies only to autos not fleet / industrial and or stationary applications

Diesel911 · #13 11-16-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Dave, I've been changing oil filter every other oil change also. What do you think of installing a pressure gauge before and after the filter to measure differential pressure and determine when to change the filter? What kind of readings should I be seeing on a new filter? At what reading should the filter be changed?

I do not know if this applies to only Hydraulic Filters but a 20% difference in the differential pressure is what they say as an indication of time to change the filter.

But, I would think that if the differential pressure starts to rise at all that would be a good time to change the Filter.

funola · #14 11-16-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

But, I would think that if the differential pressure starts to rise at all that would be a good time to change the Filter.

As the filter trap debri in the filter media, the differential pressure will start to rise. Are you saying the filter should be changed then?

Diesel911 · #15 11-16-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

As the filter trap debri in the filter media, the differential pressure will start to rise. Are you saying the filter should be changed then?

So far I have changed my Full Flow Oil Filter every time I change the Oil.

If I had the setup you were speaking of my personal choice would be to change the Filter as soon as I see that it is starting to plug up as indicated by a rise in the differential pressure.
I would not want to wait for a 20% drop in the Oil Pressure.