youtube MPG discussion VS Europe - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

buckstersdad · #1 05-08-2012, 11:14 PM

Since all of us Diesel drivers are always MPG conscious I bring this topic for your consideration. Isn't it always interesting how politics always enter into progress.

The Gov't always seems to believe that they know what is better for us than we ourselves do. Election time is drawing near.

VW Passat 78.5 MPG in the Uk

alabbasi · #2 05-09-2012, 01:14 AM

He makes good points, but not 100% accurate. The reason that the Passat in the UK makes more mpg has probably more to do with the size of the gallon then anything else.

I checked the website and it shows the following for the passat:

Urban: 54.3
Extra Urban: 74.3
Combined: 65.7

Two things to consider:
1) The UK gallon is 4.54 liters whereas the US gallon is 3.78 so there about a 20% increase here which is not real.
2) I have no idea what urban or extra urban means but I would suspect that it's a different calculation to the city/highway driving calculations that we use in the US which have been revised and bought down in recent years by the EPA from what the manufacturers initially suggested.

I'm not saying that I don't share his frustration about the fact that there are many models with small diesel engines in Europe that offer tremendous fuel economy which we don't have. But I suspect that it's a bit more complicated then to blame it on the 'administration'.

Dee8go · #3 05-15-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

. . . I'm not saying that I don't share his frustration about the fact that there are many models with small diesel engines in Europe that offer tremendous fuel economy which we don't have. But I suspect that it's a bit more complicated then to blame it on the 'administration'.

I blame society . . .

biopete · #4 05-09-2012, 02:49 AM

I like it how he points out the car companies complain about higher MPG cars being cost prohibitive to produce yet they make them here by the thousands every day and ship them overseas. Now I could be wrong but smaller engines I would think would be less expensive to produce and given the fact that the R&D is done and they are selling them elsewhere, expanding to the American market would only make them cost less.

GRRRRR!

Stretch · #5 05-09-2012, 03:02 AM

Here's a link to a UK site showing real MPG

Real MPG | Honest John

As for not blaming the administrators - well bollocks to that - they should be blamed for everything. They are the corrupt pedantic idiots who make our lives just that little bit more complicated and difficult than they need to be. Good administration should be just like a good (computer) operating system => you shouldn't notice that it is there.

t walgamuth · #6 05-09-2012, 06:05 AM

The reality is that the US emission standards back in the seventies pushed the car mfgrs to improve mpg and ushered in a golden age of performance with better fuel economy along with much better longivity and less maintenance which we still enjoy today.

the lack of real fuel sippers here is due more to marketing decisions by the mfgrs. than our government.

A smaller more effecient car will cost less than a big one but not all that much less, so to the less informed the larger car seems like a bargain...supersized in the good old fat US way.

Stretch · #7 05-09-2012, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

...
the lack of real fuel sippers here is due more to marketing decisions by the mfgrs. than our government.
...

Here in Northern Europe it is totally the other way round. In most countries heavy fuel users are not only taxed at the fuel pump but they are also being subjected to heavier annual road taxes.

If you drive something like a VW Passat here in Holland with an LPG conversion or a diesel engine you could be paying about 1500 euros per year in road tax - and at that point you haven't gone anywhere... whereas if you drive a Citroen C1 (stupid little thing) then you don't have to pay any road tax (until 2014).

Furthermore at the point of purchase for a new car you'd have to pay about 40% BPM tax on top of the new price for the VW and 0% BPM on the C1...

Fuel sippers are big business over here - whether they are able to achieve the extraordinary mpg they are meant to do or not.

alabbasi · #8 05-09-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

the lack of real fuel sippers here is due more to marketing decisions by the mfgrs. than our government.

I agree with this, while people on this forum may like small engined diesels. VW can sell a Passat 1.6 diesel with no options for about $36K in the UK (21k GBP).

For that kind of money, American buyers expect the V8 with leather and navigation.

barry123400 · #9 05-09-2012, 11:18 AM

What the total truth is still an unknown quantity. That is to me at least. It is not a good omen that many of the japanese have announced the introduction of their diesel cars in north america. This for quite a number of years and they never materialise.

Could be as simple as someone or other protecting the old status quo.. Or why introduce them here if they can still market the cheaper gas engines easily in quantity.

To find out that volkswagon actually builds the 1.6 bluetech in north america for export only was quite a shock. In the milage comparisons a catagory was missing.

I thought there was a three cylinder diesel by volkswagon and perhaps others sold a simular layout. Perhaps if true it was too hot a potato to mention.

I heard manufactures claims that where almost impossible to believe with those engines. I have no ideal of the power they produce either.. Might not be adaquate.Ninety to 100 miles per gallon on the imperial gallon though If I remember. Probably a product of wishful thinking.

Anyways I have almost given up the thought of really high milage diesels being marketed here during my remaining lifetime. Volkswagon is on a course of marketing higher power rather than more fuel eficient diesels in north america. The current engine for north america is already substantially more powerful and getting almost as quiet as their gas varient.

Remember I could pull 50 mpg on the highway out of their indirect turbo diesel engines on the imperial gallon twenty five years ago.

t walgamuth · #10 05-09-2012, 11:27 AM

If the original honda insight could get 70 mpg it should be capable of 90+ with the correct diesel.

I don't expect to see them here though....as you say, in my lifetime.

buckstersdad · #11 05-09-2012, 10:58 PM

Unfortunately at this point its speculation only as to the emissions of the smaller diesel engines. I chose to believe that in the case of VW at least, that they are putting their best technology forward.

It wasn't but just a few years ago that VW made a decision to be the worlds largest manufacturer, and would be going head to head against the traditional quality leaders of Honda, Toyota, Ford, Hyundai, etc.

They seem to be accomplishing that goal. Their Bluetec technology seems to be at the forefront of the emisssions game, and if I recall correctly VW diesel was also at the forefront of engine design that required ultra low sulpher.

Still think somethings cockeyed here.

rscurtis · #12 05-10-2012, 09:33 AM

I think Cummins wins the prize for that. The 2007.5 Dodge met 2010 emission standards 3 years ahead of schedule.

vstech · #13 05-10-2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rscurtis

I think Cummins wins the prize for that. The 2007.5 Dodge met 2010 emission standards 3 years ahead of schedule.

and STILL does not require the urea injection to do it...

buckstersdad · #14 05-10-2012, 11:30 AM

With respect to the Urea Injection, it is another cost of operation. So even though your mileage per gallon may be defined, you still have to add the fixed cost of the Blue Tec fluid. Cost per mile actually increased by the Blue Tec injection.

As my Dad used to say: Its not how much you make, that counts, but how much you get to keep.

rs899 · #15 05-10-2012, 11:44 AM

Just browsing the Honest John site sent by Army, I see scads of small diesels getting close to or more than 70 mpg imperial- which is 55-60 mpg US. We've been robbed.