In search of a reliable wagon - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Ozarkdude · #46 12-21-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

The reason people have to use the "M" word is that true 'wagons' have been pretty much extinct in this country since the mid '90s. The last 'reliable Japanese' wagons sold here were the '96 Toyota Camry and '97 Honda Accord.

No one ever built a wagon that compared to what Mercedes Benz built.

Mark DiSilvestro · #47 12-21-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

No one ever built a wagon that compared to what Mercedes Benz built.

True. But as mentioned previously, the newest W123 wagons are now 27 years old, and many are suffering the ravages of age and neglect. Plus, the ACC, AT, power windows, turbo, SLS are common W123 problems I read about all the time on this Forum. That's why I jumped at the opportunity to get an '84 Euro 5-speed 300TD when one came up for sale locally. (though it still has SLS)
Even without most of the mandatory options found on the US versions, my wagon hasn't been trouble-free. And it would've been a major money-pit if I wasn't able to fix it myself.
Though it's never broken down or left me stranded, it isn't my main transportation either. And this car is special enough, I tend to avoid exposing it to the kind of lousy traffic, bonehead drivers and crappy winter weather we sometimes get around here. For that I have a '96 Toyota Camry.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Ozarkdude · #48 12-21-2012, 11:05 PM

If one were wise, you could take a 123TD wagon that was in generally good condition, and blow $10K on overhauling it from bumper to bumper, not unlike one would do with an airplane flown in part 135/commercial service, there isnt much that could hold a candle to it. Of course there would be a sorting period where some failures would raise their ugly head, but if the parts were of Mercedes quality, it should be equal to what it was when new. And no one could argue they were not worth every penny what they sold for new.

The 124TD is equally a good candidate for the above.

Ozarkdude · #49 12-21-2012, 11:08 PM

Just to be clear, im talking about replacing things with new or overhauled parts and components regardless of their current condition.

Mölyapina · #50 12-22-2012, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

In fact, some < GASP > even managed with sedans, and not even full-size ones (honest, I've seen photos).

Now I hear people at work saying "Oh we HAVE to get a minivan now... we're having a second child."

Wow, really? How much personal space do your small children need? Is opening a hatch to stow groceries a more personally fulfilling thing than putting them in trunk?

Actually, my family got along just fine with nothing but the Corolla in the signature until 2009 (before the Corolla, our biggest car was a '96 Camry)... and then we only got the minivan for the good ride! (My mother quite literally has more joint/health problems than I can count on both hands.)

I remember staying behind at IKEA, watching the Corolla pull away with my father and so much stuff that the rear bumper was about a foot off the pavement!

Oooh, and here's something else radical: we owned nothing but 5-speeds from 1990 to 2009! The horror!

And yes, my father cooks on a Weber charcoal grill

Mark DiSilvestro · #51 12-22-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

Just to be clear, im talking about replacing things with new or overhauled parts and components regardless of their current condition.

But that brings up issues with the older cars that I've seen raised on these forums -
that the quality of new aftermarket parts is becoming unreliable, while many factory Mercedes parts are either prohibitively expensive, or are no longer availible.

Happy Motoring, Mark

gsxr · #52 12-22-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

But that brings up issues with the older cars that I've seen raised on these forums -
that the quality of new aftermarket parts is becoming unreliable, while many factory Mercedes parts are either prohibitively expensive, or are no longer availible.

Parts.com takes care of the first issue (when an OEM aftermarket equivalent part is not available). Only certain brands have become unreliable in recent years (i.e, Meyle & Febi). I'm assuming everyone already knows to avoid Uro/FEQ/APA like the plague along with Trucktec, HamburgTech, and some of the other purveyors of Chinese junk.

For the second issue, that mostly affects cosmetic/interior items that have nothing to do with keeping the car functioning normally. You're not going to find the Mercedes dealer telling you that brake rotors/pads, belts, filters, or engine gaskets are "no longer available".

giff · #53 12-22-2012, 01:04 PM

The "problem" I see with the Japanese cars, is that they lack soul. If you don't like your car transmitting road conditions to you or putting a smile on your face, then get the reliable Japanese whatever.

If you like the cool factor (and safety factor for that matter), if you appreciate the engineering and understand the difference it makes in the driving experience....go with the Benz.

Read & learn (here on PP) what needs to be done for routine maintenance....pay for things you don't want to DIY in the driveway.

Just my .02

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot · #54 12-22-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

No, the most expensive car is an old Ferrari. But both cars can be troublesome if you walk in blind.

Read my thread about the 83 126 under diesels. Buying a car without records can cause financial suicide and deep grief and remorse (if not a divorce) if you arent mechanically inclined and/or are blinded by the marque insignia.

As with any purchase, even a new Rav4, and unless your a mechanic, you are at the mercy of the shop/dealership who will service your choice. If you live an area with several indy Mercedes shops, or Toyota dealers, lucky you. If you have only one and he's a problem, and you cant fix the car yourself, your screwed. Toyota, Mercedes, Ford, makes no difference, you need good service.

Records should be complete, extensive, have no gaps, and service should be stellar. You want a car that recieved 3000 mile oil/filter changes with high quality high grade oil, not 8000K ones with Pennzoil 5W-30. The car should have everything working, run perfect, drive perfect, look perfect, and pass a PPI with flying colors.

You will pay a premium for a good used car, and they will be sold instantly, making them hard to find, and harder to grab. But if you can find one, and can service it, an older Mercedes in prime condition can be as good as any new car. Find an nice 124 diesel wagon, and with some mods you'll see 40 MPG. But even a gas one isnt bad, tuned right and driven easy you might see high 20's.

It is difficult however, to discount safety or put a price on it, either one. If I had to pick one to get hit in, I would rather my kid was in a Mercedes or a big heavy SUV. Even an old 123 is a very substantial vehicle that offers a great amount of safety, even by todays standards. But a 124, with ABS and belt tensioners, short of all the side and rear airbags of more modern cars, is pretty cutting edge as far as safety, they were far ahead of most at that time.

What mods will get you 40 mpg in a w124 diesel wagon?

Mark DiSilvestro · #55 12-22-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Parts.com takes care of the first issue (when an OEM aftermarket equivalent part is not available). Only certain brands have become unreliable in recent years (i.e, Meyle & Febi). I'm assuming everyone already knows to avoid Uro/FEQ/APA like the plague along with Trucktec, HamburgTech, and some of the other purveyors of Chinese junk.

For the second issue, that mostly affects cosmetic/interior items that have nothing to do with keeping the car functioning normally. You're not going to find the Mercedes dealer telling you that brake rotors/pads, belts, filters, or engine gaskets are "no longer available".

So far, aftermarket brake parts, belts & filters haven't been a problem with my W123s. Drivetrain and suspension parts are another matter, and till now, the few times I've had to get something from the dealer, the price wasn't too prohibitive.
BUT - New factory blower-motors are running over $400 these days. And I get the feeling that it's only a matter of time before Mercedes' bean-counters price our oldtimers out of existence.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Mark DiSilvestro · #56 12-22-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giff

The "problem" I see with the Japanese cars, is that they lack soul. If you don't like your car transmitting road conditions to you or putting a smile on your face, then get the reliable Japanese whatever.

If you like the cool factor (and safety factor for that matter), if you appreciate the engineering and understand the difference it makes in the driving experience....go with the Benz.

Read & learn (here on PP) what needs to be done for routine maintenance....pay for things you don't want to DIY in the driveway.

Just my .02

Well, this is kind-of like those heated Chevy vs Ford or FWD vs RWD discussions.
I've been around long enough to be able to see some redeeming value in most any car (though maybe not in a '74 Ford Gran-Torino or '80s Yugo)
Yes, Japanese vehicles like my Camry are accused of being boring and soul-less. But having reliable AC, and being able to commute comfortably to Virginia Beach once a month without drama, while getting 35 MPG still puts a smile on my face. Besides, with new Michelins, the driving feel isn't bad. Certainly not as numb as a typical '80s or '90s FWD Buick or Oldsmobile.
My diesels have had (and suffered from) their day as daily drivers and commuter cars. Better to subject my Camry to the ravages of road-salt and other drivers testing their ice-driving skills.
And with it's crumple-zones, dual airbags and other safety technolgy (much of which probably trickled down from cars like Mercedes) I don't consider my '96 Camry significantly less safe than my '82 240D.

Happy Motoring, Mark

gsxr · #57 12-23-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

What mods will get you 40 mpg in a w124 diesel wagon?

Nothing will get you 40mpg in a USA-spec 124.193 diesel wagon with OM603 engine, except perhaps a continuous 40mph tailwind.

You can, however, get around 30mpg from that particular model. W124 gas wagons with the M104 engine can realistically get low/mid 20's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

I don't consider my '96 Camry significantly less safe than my '82 240D.

For an impact with a Kia or Hundai, yep, probably not much difference. However for an impact with a much larger vehicle (American 1-ton pickup, bus, etc) I'd prefer the 240D. Or better yet a W124 with SRS (airbags), which the 240D lacks.

Useless anecdote, which I've related previously: A friend of mine used to work at a Mercedes-specialty salvage yard about 10 years ago (early 2000's). Right next door was a Japanese-specialty yard (I forget if it was Toyota, or Nissan, or whatever). One day he was visiting the Japanese yard and walking around their cars with one of the guys who worked there. He noticed that many of the Japanese cars had some weird brown stuff inside, and asked the guy what it was. "Oh, that's dried blood." He said that in the few years he worked at the MB yard, they saw extremely few cars (like, single digits, out of hundreds) that had the brown stuff inside. YMMV, etc, etc. Just remember that cars are replaceable, people are not. I personally have been in two major accidents in MB's, my sister in one bad accident (all three cars were totaled). I can't justify putting myself or my family into anything less just to save a few bucks.

Mark DiSilvestro · #58 12-23-2012, 01:33 PM

Everythings relative. If my particular Camry didn't have the twin airbags and a generously padded dash, (much more padding than many late-model vahicles),
I'd give the safety-edge to my 240D.
OTOH, I agree an airbag-equipped 124 or newer Mercedes would certainly be a safer bet than my Camry. But a newer Mercedes just isn't in the cards for me right now.
Meanwhile, there are no guarantees in this life and I recall several years ago, someone here posting a photo of a W126, broken in half after being struck by, of all things, a Dodge Omni!
I guess if safety was the only criteria, nobody would ride motorcycles.

Happy Motoring, Mark

gsxr · #59 12-23-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

... I recall several years ago, someone here posting a photo of a W126, broken in half after being struck by, of all things, a Dodge Omni! ...

Anyone have a link to this photo/story?

Adriel · #60 12-24-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tram

Hey John-

What do you mean you used to have a '69 Squareback??? I'll be getting to it soon... I promise.

I'm a W123 fan. We've had our 1985 300TD-T for over ten years and put 150K on it. It had 130K when we got it. I've probably put $3K in it in all those years including batteries and tires. But then, I do all my own work. They're not difficult, but they ARE labor intensive... and don't you dare cut corners!

We just sold it for little less than twice what we paid in 2002 and are graduating to a W211. The W124s just never appealed to me.

We should start a Samba Refugee club over here- Hazetguy, The Don, Ghoti, and a few others are here too. In fact, Hazet got himself a W123 wagon last year, and is now whoring Fintails.

Saw this thread, and figured I should check to see if my thinking matched that of this thread, and mostly does.

Tram, interesting I am not the only one! Some folks just got wise about better German steel!

Club sounds fine to me, but know in you... I mean, you turned down membership in the club that can't be mentioned.

I am a wagen folk, have tried a sedan, and just didn't work especially with a Golden Retriever and Border Collie. I had an opportunity to get a used Edge, and I refused. I have driven my Mother's minivan, and hate the length as scraped a rental trying to get out a poorly designed parking garage (should have gone with my gut and gone out the entrance which was wider). Having all that length behind the rear wheel is the problem. Wagons can fit in places vans can't especially with the roof loaded. I just don't get why the average American with no more than two children needs a seven passenger van. I Opa and Oma had a 1984 Toyota Corolla and Oma and us three fit fine on the back seat.