In search of a reliable wagon - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tram · #61 12-25-2012, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

Saw this thread, and figured I should check to see if my thinking matched that of this thread, and mostly does.

Tram, interesting I am not the only one! Some folks just got wise about better German steel!

Club sounds fine to me, but know in you... I mean, you turned down membership in the club that can't be mentioned.

I am a wagen folk, have tried a sedan, and just didn't work especially with a Golden Retriever and Border Collie. I had an opportunity to get a used Edge, and I refused. I have driven my Mother's minivan, and hate the length as scraped a rental trying to get out a poorly designed parking garage (should have gone with my gut and gone out the entrance which was wider). Having all that length behind the rear wheel is the problem. Wagons can fit in places vans can't especially with the roof loaded. I just don't get why the average American with no more than two children needs a seven passenger van. I Opa and Oma had a 1984 Toyota Corolla and Oma and us three fit fine on the back seat.

LOL, I just don't like clubs... I don't play well with others. Besides, a lot of those people in that unmentionable club are my secret disciples... including the founder. I'm finishing up my Type 34 Cabrio for him to buy after I get John's Variant done.

But yes, the W123 wagons will always be special. They were MBs first factory commercial wagon offering (the others were coachbuilts) and I think they got it exactly right- although I wish they had brought some of the other models into USA that were offered in Germany- 240DT, 230T, 250T, 280T and TEs. I had a 250TE for awhile that was the bomb.

Annette loves her W210 wagon, but the sight of a W123 still makes her heart flutter, and she says you'd better be taking care of her first love. The W123s were the greatest- all the others are just replacements, IMHO.

MBeige · #62 12-25-2012, 04:40 AM

In 2005 we got an 81 300TD with 369k miles on the clock. Decided it was too far gone to restore, so we opted to let it go and instead, replace it with a 90 300TE with 223k miles on the clock. The 300TE has been in nearly daily service since we got the car in 2006, and is now almost 290k miles on original engine (transmission rebuilt recently).

It's been a great reliable car our family has come to cherish and appreciate. It does need some attention here and there but nothing seriously critical. I don't recall how many times we had to drive to the airport to pick up my dad and send him off on his trips, using that wagon. The cargo space is immensely useful. I want to give it more TLC but my mother uses it daily, maybe I can squeeze some time during the holidays to get some work done on her car.

vstech · #63 12-25-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

Everythings relative. If my particular Camry didn't have the twin airbags and a generously padded dash, (much more padding than many late-model vahicles),
I'd give the safety-edge to my 240D.
OTOH, I agree an airbag-equipped 124 or newer Mercedes would certainly be a safer bet than my Camry. But a newer Mercedes just isn't in the cards for me right now.
Meanwhile, there are no guarantees in this life and I recall several years ago, someone here posting a photo of a W126, broken in half after being struck by, of all things, a Dodge Omni!
I guess if safety was the only criteria, nobody would ride motorcycles.

Happy Motoring, Mark

I remember this thread.
it was determined that the car was "repaired" from a serious rear end collision, and a donor car was welded to the front of the other car... not to MB Specs is an understatement...
that car was NOT damaged by the omni, it was damaged by the bodyshop that built it!!!

gsxr · #64 12-25-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I remember this thread.
it was determined that the car was "repaired" from a serious rear end collision, and a donor car was welded to the front of the other car... not to MB Specs is an understatement...
that car was NOT damaged by the omni, it was damaged by the bodyshop that built it!!!

Thank you for clarifying. I was pretty sure it was not possible for an Omni to split a W126 in half without extenuating circumstances.

This is one of the best commercials I've ever seen, it happens to be the aftermath of a W126 accident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxMt7qmv9eU

This one is also interesting. You decide if you'd rather be in a Camry or a Mercedes, either as the moving vehicle, or one of the stopped vehicles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jfato_55w8

Adriel · #65 12-25-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tram

LOL, I just don't like clubs... I don't play well with others. Besides, a lot of those people in that unmentionable club are my secret disciples... including the founder. I'm finishing up my Type 34 Cabrio for him to buy after I get John's Variant done.

But yes, the W123 wagons will always be special. They were MBs first factory commercial wagon offering (the others were coachbuilts) and I think they got it exactly right- although I wish they had brought some of the other models into USA that were offered in Germany- 240DT, 230T, 250T, 280T and TEs. I had a 250TE for awhile that was the bomb.

Annette loves her W210 wagon, but the sight of a W123 still makes her heart flutter, and she says you'd better be taking care of her first love. The W123s were the greatest- all the others are just replacements, IMHO.

I too agree about being a member of a club, but figure I am young enough to change.

Trying to join the Son's of the American Revolution, as a mater of fact (hard when 90 percent of the family is pacifists...).

I didn't know the W123 was the first factory wagon! Now I understand why they are so special. I think they could have done a tad better, like cup holders that work when in motion (though nice to have any), manual transmission, and Limited Slip Differential. Also, they are designed for American roads, not the Autobahn so 70M.P.H. is about the fastest cruising speed. You mean 240TD, right? I don't think that work for the American market, as sedans are already slow enough and hate to see a heavier wagon powered by a four cylinder! Is the difference between T and TE F.I.?

That is why I am updating the tread, despite only a couple looking at it!

Leaving tomorrow for Sandy Eggo as the weather has turned too bad for snowing.

But, we all had a good Christmas, and Ember has new things for the trip down (antler and ball).

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I remember this thread.
it was determined that the car was "repaired" from a serious rear end collision, and a donor car was welded to the front of the other car... not to MB Specs is an understatement...
that car was NOT damaged by the omni, it was damaged by the bodyshop that built it!!!

I was wondering how a W126 could loose so bad! Thank you for clearing things up.

I wonder how the insurance handled that!

vstech · #66 12-25-2012, 05:23 PM

so... the fintails were not wagons? ponton? they were made by customizers?

tram · #67 12-25-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

so... the fintails were not wagons? ponton? they were made by customizers?

They were made by factory authorized coachbulders such as Binz, but were not factory wagons per se. They were very expensive, and therefore rare.

Stevo · #68 12-26-2012, 11:51 AM

Allot of you guys probably saw this but over on the Bensworld forum theres a guy down in Australia that just got a five speed w123 TD that wants to turn it into an automatic for "city driving". I guess that would be a RHD as he said it came from GB, I wonder how many PMs he got

biopete · #69 12-27-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

(SNIP) From 1985 on the 601 602 and 603 motors were almost completely choked of air by the EGR/intake system (different intake manifold), and fuel economy dropped significantly compared to their European counterparts. In my case, on my 602, I opened up the intake manifold and blocked the EGR, basically returning it to Euro spec. Fuel economy and low end power jumped significantly.

Mercedes-Benz OM601 engine - Mercedes Wiki

Read the 6th paragraph, recalling that those numbers came from the 1984 model

Ozarkdude How do you open up the intake on a 602? My 1992 w124 only got 29 mpg on highway trip home. My egr is blocked.

I'd love to put a 602 in my wagon. If the engine blows, that is the plan. Do u need to use the 722.4 tranny or will the existing 722.3 work better?

Ozarkdude · #70 12-27-2012, 01:37 PM

I'm the wrong one to ask about transmission swaps. As far as the intake, right behind the filter they welded a panel throttle plate/butterfly. Remove the manifold and using an air powered die grinder, cut away the entire plate so the engine receives unrestricted air as it was originally designed. You may want to consider retaining the upper shaft and vacuum controls to retain its "appearance". If it were a later car with a trap or cat, maybe you could do something to open up the exhaust, too.

While ive never seen behind the filter on the 603, or peered into any of the 60X turbo motors, I understand there is similar vacuum controlled airflow blockage/EGR that could be removed. Remember, this blocking (closing the butterfly) occurs at low/part throttle positions (cruise), which is why they appear to make almost as much peak power as their euro counterparts. Those throttle positions are exactly where a diesel is its most efficient, and exactly where the system is blocking the most air while feeding it exhaust.

ashedd · #71 12-27-2012, 02:53 PM

I have a reliable wagon for sale...
Comes with an interesting feature: you can drive it sideways don't the street

Mark DiSilvestro · #72 12-27-2012, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude

I'm the wrong one to ask about transmission swaps. As far as the intake, right behind the filter they welded a panel throttle plate/butterfly. Remove the manifold and using an air powered die grinder, cut away the entire plate so the engine receives unrestricted air as it was originally designed. You may want to consider retaining the upper shaft and vacuum controls to retain its "appearance". If it were a later car with a trap or cat, maybe you could do something to open up the exhaust, too.

While ive never seen behind the filter on the 603, or peered into any of the 60X turbo motors, I understand there is similar vacuum controlled airflow blockage/EGR that could be removed. Remember, this blocking (closing the butterfly) occurs at low/part throttle positions (cruise), which is why they appear to make almost as much peak power as their euro counterparts. Those throttle positions are exactly where a diesel is its most efficient, and exactly where the system is blocking the most air while feeding it exhaust.

My '82 240D also has an EGR system, with that 'throttle-plate". I'm wondering if, along with blocking off the EGR, I could simply disconnect the linkage and wire that 'throttle-plate' full open, rather than permanently cutting it out. Just in case the smog police decide someday soon to re-examine our older diesels. I read that Obama and the EPA have just enacted 20% tougher diesel soot regulations.

Happy Motoring, Mark

biopete · #73 12-27-2012, 11:03 PM

Ive had two 2.5t w124 -- a 93 and a 92. I drove the 93 a long time and it got 35 mpg pretty regularly. It didn't have egr blocked off but had the Alda removed.

The 92 I have now I haven't driven much cause reverse is out but it got under30 mpg on the way home from illinoise. It has the egr blocked off. I wonder if with the egr blocked and airflow is getting restricted like mentioned it is starving for air. This sounds like a fun easy experiment. I'll give it a try when reverse is fixed.

toomany MBZ · #74 12-28-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

My '82 240D also has an EGR system, with that 'throttle-plate". I'm wondering if, along with blocking off the EGR, I could simply disconnect the linkage and wire that 'throttle-plate' full open, rather than permanently cutting it out. Just in case the smog police decide someday soon to re-examine our older diesels. I read that Obama and the EPA have just enacted 20% tougher diesel soot regulations.

Happy Motoring, Mark

This link:
My 1st MB . . . A 82 240D Manual!
has much info, post #29 is of my old 240.

A coulpe of more pics below.

Ozarkdude · #75 12-28-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toomany MBZ

This link:
My 1st MB . . . A 82 240D Manual!
has much info, post #29 is of my old 240.

A coulpe of more pics below.

You should be able to find a spare manifold to keep on the shelf if your worried about it. However, seeing as so many are ignorant to what these engines have, and the service manual doesnt show any pictures that I could find, showing the differeces, its doubtful any emissions tech would recognize the alteration if it was done properly. Heck, ive done searches on car-part for the two different manifolds and they dont even note the difference. They are both physically interchangeable, and externally look about the same.

But I am curious about your 82. I had an 83 300SD and an 84 190D (601), and neither of those had anything to restrict airflow, or any kind of throttle. The 86 190D (602) was the first one I had seen, the manifolds of the others were totally open. Is yours a California car? I wonder if they didnt start that garbage earlier than I was aware of.