Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
350sd to 300sdl swap help

I just completed a swap using a block from a 87 300sdl, new injectors, harnes, glow plugs, rebuilt head from the 95 along with ip, and all other parts from the. 95. 95 has 160k and two bent rods. Started the engine which was hard to start it is smoking black smoke and has no power , also is running hot . used AB light for timing and it is spot on . Ip is from the 95 and I made no adjustments just set the timing . Any ideas?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,932
Get the tang of the injection pump in visual sight. Look to see if the first cylinder cam lobes are pointing upward in general instead of downward. If downward you have the injection pump on the wrong stroke.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-20-2013, 09:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
I did, at 15atdc first lobe points about 1 oclock. Ab lights of riv tool are both lit.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-21-2013, 02:08 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
any other ideas ?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-21-2013, 03:49 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,932
Unusual if the cam is right. With the timing tool the cam marks should have not been too far apart. Whatever the 15 atdc degrees at the harmonic balancer allows would be it. This is about 7 1/2 degrees at the cam marks.

Very hard starting,lots of smoke and no power are typical of the 180 degree timing error at the cam. Maybe another member can think of something else that could cause this much grief. No chance a rag was left behind?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beachwood, NJ
Posts: 462
I would pull the valve cover and look at the cam marks to be 110% sure of timing.
Once had a Dodge cam break and then contine to rotate with some cylinders out of time.
Too much back pressure in exhaust system?
__________________

Present
1987 300SDL
1991 300SL
1990 560SEL
2001 ML320

Past
1969 200D 1979-82
1983 300SD 1984-85
1972 250C 1982-02
1995 S350 2011
1997 S320 2012
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
At tdc, the cam mark lines up and then I rotate it clockwise to the 15 where the Ab light turn on. Could lifters go bad from sitting? Intake is clear and smokes well out the exhaust. Have other swaps had to adjust ip further?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-21-2013, 11:50 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,932
Make sure the egr is closed at idle and low speeds. Just a thought as your initial description really has me at somewhat of a loss. Thats because you have really checked the timing.

The overheating may be a constricted exhaust indicator perhaps as well. Should not be hard to loosen the exhaust pipe off to test. As it was off so reciently. May be a waste of time but something is wrong.

I cannot offer an opinion on the lifters but suspect they are not the issue. Unless there is no oil feed present up there for them to pressure up from. Even if that were missing I am far from certain what the effects would be. On the otherhand perhaps that might make your symptoms possible I suppose. Valves would hardly be opening I expect as a result.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
is it possible that the engine is timed wrong although the crankshaft reads top dead center and the number 1 cam lobe is pointing up ?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,932
Not much chance as your valves should be hitting if it were. You can check the accuracy of the balancers tdc indicator simply by removing the number one injector . Get the number one piston pretty close to tdc. Fill the combustion chamber with oil and watch for spillover to stop as you continue towards tdc. More acurate with making a transparent straw or whatever kind of tube a vertical far more accurate indicator.

When the fluid stops rising in the tube you have arrived really close to tdc and can compare it against your mark. It should be really close or less than 1/16 of an inch if you are carefull. You can find the dead mean average centre by rolling it backwards through the high point on the indicator.

I would be prone to eliminate the exhaust first of all now though unless you already have. That is very simple to do I believe in your case.

Last edited by barry12345; 01-23-2013 at 10:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedlinerpro View Post
is it possible that the engine is timed wrong although the crankshaft reads top dead center and the number 1 cam lobe is pointing up ?
Both of the cam lobes on number one cylinder should be generally upward. Between your reporting one is and your refference to the cam marks in general. It is pretty safe to think you are not the usual 180 degrees out on the cam . For the injection pump that is.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
I will loosen the exhaust. I am really against the wall on this one! I have no idea what else to check, ran the car with the valve cover off lifters spinning and oiling. Gonna do a compression test when the weather breaks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
Any good shops in nj?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:34 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,018
It's not the lifters. I too was thinking the IP was out of phase, but it sounds like your cam, IP, and crank are all in sync.

Did you check for plugged exhaust? Is the turbo impeller spinning with the engine at idle, and does it turn easily & smoothly when you turn it with you fingers (engine off)? Black smoke indicates either too much fuel or a major intake air restriction. There isn't much to go wrong on the bottom end. I wouldn't expect a compression test to tell you much unless a cylinder was dead. How hot is the engine getting, btw? Are you sure that's not just due to an air pocket? These cooling systems are a PITA to burp.

__________________
Dave M.
Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:17 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 20,793
Remove one of the temp sensors on the upper radiator hose fitting to help burp coolant.

IIRC the .96 and .97 use the same crank damper part number so that shouldn't be an issue.

Did you move the adjustable TDC indicator during the swap? Which front cover did you use? I don't know the range of adjustment but it might be enough to throw off cam and IP timing.

Are these the cam timing marks you used?



And to be sure, the indicator edge is seen in the lower right corner of this picture. The left edge which goes north-south to the right of the water pump is the reference edge. Ignore the angled right edge -



Sixto
87 300D

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page